Was anyone else thrown off-guard by this? I was so used to being able to defeat pretty much anything in Oblivion, then on my first day playing Skyrim I was pummelled into the snow by a frost-troll! Haha it was pretty funny to be honest, and I'm certainly not complaining, I was just a little shocked.

I actually kind of like that I often come across enemies that I have to run away from, rather than being able to take on anything

I wondered though, is it like this for all enemies? Or only certain ones?

It's nice, though the scaling still shows very badly on things like dragons and bandits. Overall, I kinda just wish there were a few more additional variations of enemies that are past level 50, and more static high level enemies in places.

It needs some work. Amount of times I've almost gotten killed (or indeed, killed), by a single bandit chief, or some super crazed buffed single bandit (once had a single bandit chop my level 25 guys head off, and for some reason, my damage on it was weak), after clearing out an entire dungeon without kicking up a sweat shows up the problem.

People are saying that the level scaling is better, but I feel it's worse. Sure, bandits are sticking to low level gear and occasionally there is a powerful creature that usually kills you, but I'm finding most of the time, there is no challenge in the dungeons (due mainly to the perk system buffing your damage to excessive levels).

Beth have made lovely environments and dungeons, but still have populated them with generic "bandits" which must have some form of levelling on them. They should have spent the time as per morrowind, and made individual named "bandits" of fixed level to populate their dungeons. Always was a nice feeling in MW to stumble across a dungeon, getting killed, then coming back later when you are stronger, and getting your revenge. Doesn't happen in Skyrim.

And I prefer it the way Skyrim did it. For me, it's more about my character's journey than just the world - And while I wish there was a bit more even challenge at points, there have been just as many times I've had a truly mixed encounter, where I have to handle a well-mixed assortment of bandits.

I love leveled bandits - Despite the lack of a name, each one is a person with a story behind them, and a great "How do I stack up" opponent to face down, fighting in a truly "even" match-off - They can do anything I can do, and I can do anything they can.

They need to just cut it. Im tired of level scaling period.

Theres level scaling present but you can still run into higher leveled enemies in certain areas.

That is how it works in Skyrim. When you get into a dungeon, the dungeon is set on your level. So if you leave and come back later, the contents won't be re-scaled

This, IMO, provides the good combination of "I'll come back later" with "there's challenge everywhere"

I like how in lower levels, the ground shakes as Giants and Mammoths moves, and no longer shakes at higher levels

Game as open as Skyrim = level scaling. It can't be done otherwise.

This.

And also, you can increase your character's level by leveling up non-combat skills like speech, and others. NPCs will level with you. However, your combat capability will not level up, but the enemies' combat capability will increase - making things harder for you.

they are never going to cut it, if you dont want level scaling you are playing the wrong series it has been in the ES since daggerfall

Oh look some wolves, lol... wait... "ice wolf" huh? OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!

I don't know, it's hard to objectively comment on balance in a game that isn't playable.

yeah and what's worse is some skills do not have godly perks and become useless at higher levels and you feel weaker while you lvl up

It can. Its how it should work.I want it to be every where you go you run the possibility of getting killed. Thats how it should be. And it can be done otherwise. Thats why its an rpg. Not a I go where ever I want at level one without gdtting killed. I know that this does not happen as much but they need to completely ditch level scaling.

Do tell.

You seem to be forgetting MW. Which had the best level scaling of all, very little. There were not a thousand variants of the same creature, such as in Skyrim, which seems to have ten different types of draugr, ten different types of dragon, and three different types of bears.

Also the Skyrim system is just as bad as Oblivion. I did a dungeon at level 5, was easy as heck.
On a different character, I went to the same dungeon, but this time at level 40, and it was damn near impossible.

And another gripe I have with this is that enemies attack and health scale with the player, not just creature variant.

A draugr deathlord I fought at level 20, and could deal 50% of my health in one slash, should not deal the same damage when I'm level 40. It just doesnt make sense.

Well, OOO for Oblivion had almost no scaling and lots of hand placed fixed enemies and loot, to name one. This is what Skyrim needs IMHO. Another example is Gothic3 with an open gameworld in the same size range as Oblivion/Skytim with mostly hand placed stuff and only one level list change at level 15 with level 60-70 being the normal end game. It can be done.

Bandit Chefs and Master Vampires are really dangerous. To me they are much more a match then a Draugr Deathlord. Dragon.....well only Elder and Ancient Dragons can be nasty.

Only NPCs had fixed levels in MW. Creatures were taken from levelled lists in almost all cases and sometimes it was very obvious when your level was affecting what you met. Early on in the Bitter Coast it was all mudcrabs and rats, a few levels later cliffracers everywhere, a few more the place was overrun with bull netch etc. The levelled lists in unmodded MW were far from perfect.

Enemies have a minimum level and a max. They are broken down into level increments.

Tolls exist as two variants.

Trolls lvl 14, 280 hp, 0 magic, 340 stamina, 35 dmg
Ice Trolls lvl 22 460 hp, 480 stamina 65 dmg, 0 magic

Then take a look at bandits...

Bandits is one of the biggest variation lists, if not the biggest.

you have bandit archers, warriors 1H, warriors 2H, guardians, Chiefs 1H, Chiefs 2H and mages

Each of these is then broken down by level ranges.

Bandit 1H has;

Bandit lvl 1
Bandit outlaw lvl 5
Bandit thug lvl 9
Bandit highwayman lvl 14
Bandit Plunderer lvl 19
Bandit Marauder lvl 25

There are just 5 increments to chiefs ranging from lvl 6 to 36.

From what I can see, most bandits will be roughly your character level but you may encounter one or two per encampment that is one step higher. Of course as you level, you will always encounter bandits that are below you. My lvl 45 assassin still encountered straight up bandits lvl 1. The chiefs, I think, are set up to be above you in level. So when you reach level 6 (maybe even level 5) you will no longer face the lvl 6 chiefs.

I think that the mobs in the world map are hand placed for the most part. Creatures seem to be hand placed a lot too. Most everything else seems to scale but the way it scales is whats interesting. You will always face the lower level mobs but as you increase in level, you will start facing the higher level mobs more and more.

It feels like a hybrid between Morrowind and Oblivion. Very well done but at the same time, Morrowind just seemed to be more seamless and less noticeable because of that. That's what I think is missing from Skyrim, that seamlessness.

I find that I start losing interest in Skyrim around level 35 or so and this is playing on master difficulty without much of a power-level build. I have full dragonplate, but it's not enchanted or improved with potions. I'm a bummed by that. There are probably some dungeons that are still challenging, but the challenge from open world inhabitants seems to be gone by that point.

Yes, it is better than Oblivion's level scaling. Having the bandits wearing daedric armor was beyond absurd, but I still feel like the game peaks before level 30, then it gets boring. Good thing I have a lot of characters below 30.

What? Well obviously you CAN do it. The question is how well it will work.

The problem with hand-placing is that the player might wander into area that's way over his level and find end-game gear ruining the rest of exploration in the game. Or you might level to 20 in Morrowind and become an unkillable god - what's the point of further exploration then.

Level scaling, to an extent, makes sure that wherever you'll go it will still be worth it challenge- and loot-wise.

Oh, and yes, there was level scaling in Morrowind. Quest areas weren't scaled, but all random encounters were.

Ultima. Might and Magic. Terraria.

Level scaling is an utter cop-out and is unnecessary no matter how open your world is.

And why is that? At least in the dungeons, that is?





And why is that?
If that loot is deep inside high-level dungeons, you as a low level player may try all you want - you won't have much chance of getting it... And if you somehow do manage to beat enemies far above your level and strenght, then it only makes sense to be able to win some equally awesome gear.
And ofc with proper job on the Dev's part, you won't be able to get ebony and daedric armor until you're high enough... which, combined with a few tweaks on smithing should fix this idiotic thing of having full daedric armor on level 15 or something, AND make it so that actually doing dungeons is a decent way to earn gear (right now, the main reasons to do a dungeon are 1)qquest, 2) gems in dwemer ruins 3) the off chance that you mind find some hidden treasure 4)leveling... the gear u get are only good for disenchantment... )

But without having teleportation spells, you never want ot leave a dungeon because it mean backtracking through empty corridors.