Okay so there is a fighters guild in every city except for the massive capital city, the Imperial City doesn't have a Fighters or a Mages guild ??? Okay maybe bethesda you have an explanation but i do wish to know what it is. It just seems to me a bit strange??


-Any views?

The Fighters Guild is truly a mystery. I don't know.
The mages guild a reperesented by the Arcane University.

I agree that the MG is well represented in the IC. The Arcane University is also the headquarters for the MG Council of Mages and seat of power. Well done, there.

The FG is quite another story. I too am mystified why it does not have its headquarters in the capital city.

I can easily imagine the Arch Mage dealing with the Elder Council, but there is no evidence that the FG even has a relationship with the forces that rule Tamriel. One would assume that there would certainly be enough business in the IC for a branch, as well as the need to communicate with the Elder Council. Gee, even the TG is smart enough to headquarter in the IC. Lol.

The FG wouldn't HQ in the IC. Maybe a bit of digging will shed light on this.

One of my first memories of Oblivion was wandering around the Imperial City for an hour and a half - real time - searching for the damn Fighers Guild. I came on this forum and asked, "Where in the heck is the Fighters Guild in the IC?" This was the afternoon Oblivion was released so nobody knew. I finally had to look it up in the Construction Set and I was astonished to discover there was no Fighters Guild in the IC at all. I still am.

Well, the fighter's guild, is a sort of paramilitary organization that take contracts to use their member chopping skills. Noisy, bloody and power unbalancing. IC is the capital of the empire, where the emperor lives. Were rules must be respected and no force outside emperors direct control should exist.
I can understand the fighters guild don't wanting to make noise in the power centre of the empire, where any scandal could lead to their dissolution.

It still doesn't make any sense to me. Why a Mages Guild in the IC, then? In the universe of the Elder Scrolls throwing a fireball is a combat art, no different than wielding a sword or a bow. It seems to me that if one combat art is represented, all combat arts should be represented.

The only justification I can come up with is one based on a perception of "class." It could be - and I'm just hypothesizing here - that magic is seen as the occupation of the upper-classes and therefore somehow more palatable, whereas wielding an axe to accomplish the very same thing is seen as something only a member of the unwashed lower-classes would stoop to. I sincerely hope that's not the explanation.

Well, I would say that is like that to a certain point. Mages are some sort of scholars and developers. The service they offer is a knowledge related one. They train imperial batlemages (or at least this is what I think), that end up fighting at the orders of the emperor. They are the guardians of imperial knowledge, and because of this they have attain a huge amount of political power, while the guild of fighters are a bunch of thugs not sanctioned by any official organism, that make little jobs here and there (remember that they are not the Redorans, or the imperial legion)

The mages guild is not the kind of organization that a ruler could simply put away. There are only two ways of deal with them, let them be and try to make them beneficial to the empire or try and exterminate them.

The Fighter's Guild is not a bunch of thugs. They are an Imperial organization with a 1010 year long tradition and they have higher ethical standards than the Mages Guild. You can only join them if you have no bounty on your head and your infamy isn't too high. The Mages Guild on the other hand will accept you regradless of bounty or infamy.

Mage guild is a way to control magic use, only the mage guild can teach magic, this was a issue in Morrowind.
As for the fighters guild they would not be very active in the IC as it’s pretty peaceful and has lots of guards. Yes I would assume they had an office in the IC but not an active guild.

Actually that's the best explanation I've heard. The Imperial City is protected by the best men and women the Imperial Legion has to offer and doesn't need a FG guild hall.

Obviously your knowledge of TES lore surpasses mine greatly. I had no idea about the 1010 years of FG being an imperial organization. The ethical standards you are referring though, is not so good argument. Mage's guild is not a violent organization and so, it make not sense to ask her members about her bounties or reputation, as wouldn't be necessary, to join a merchant's guild, a temple or a cartographer's guild.

Besides, my point is that FG is not a political influencing organization and is in no way where a warrior with aspirations would go seeking power. For this purpose are knightly orders (daggerfal), imperial legion, houses (morrowind), which has the required reputation and military prowess. Sadly no one of them has been included in Oblivion.

I think the Fighters Guild is not in the Imperial City due to the possible conflict with the Imperial Legion.

The Imperial Legion probably figures they provide enough protection there. And that ad hoc contracts with the Fighters Guild might interfere with there operations sometimes.

The Mages Guild is very different. It obviously has the Arcane University, which is protected by Imperial Guards and devoted to studies of the magical "sciences". Although not really addressed in game, I suspect there is at a least consultation between the Imperial Government and the Arcane University. (Though this seems to be sadly lacking in the Main Questline and the Mages Guild questline, where each doesn't seem to even know about the other crisis).

The University, Waterfront, and Prison are not actually in the IC.

There's also no Fighters Guild representation in Kvatch. Sigrid, in the Kvatch encampment, is a Mages Guild alchemist.

you mean in lore? because in game you only need to cross a bridge...

No representation? this is outrageous! I hope they have a good excuse!

I agree that the Imperial Legion probably supersede the FG, and thus handle everything in and around the IC. They even patrol the roads. The Imperial Legion is probably where any FG member aspire to end up eventually.

The FG may have a lot of tradition etc., but they are still a 'private' organization which must make a profit wherever they can, and that's not in the IC. Even in Leyawiin they are being outdone by a competitor, the Black Forest Company, hired mercs. They're just muscle for hire no matter how much tradition, honor and high standards they may have. Other organizations exist for those with higher aspiration as is evidenced by a number of Knight orders.

There aren't that many alternatives to the MG. Sure, there are different schools of thought, but they all sort under the MG. As mentioned in another post, the MG train mages for the Legion and probably serve as counselors to the Empire as well.

A. I mean "in" as "inside the walls." You exit to the "city isle" to get to the Arcane University. If you consider the university to be in the IC, then you also have to consider such places as Sideways Cave to be in the city, by virtue of being on the city isle.

B. I guess that being overrun by daedra and killed, while defending their city, would be a legitimate excuse.

Indeed, They also have a charter with the Empire, granted to them by the Akaviri Potentate. They were the first guild to be given an official, Imperial sanction in this manner. It was because of the Fighters Guild in fact, that other guilds such as the Mages were also later given the same sort of sanction by the government. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-history-fighters-guild.

There also should be plenty of work for the FG in the Imperial City. It the largest city in the Empire, so it also stands to reason it has the largest amount of crime as well. The IC is where all the money is. So it is where the people would be who would do anything to get it, and do anything to keep it. This is borne out in the game since it is the headquarters of an entire organization of thieves whom the Imperial Legion is incapable of catching. There also also goblins living right under the streets, and vampires! The City Isle itself has more than one nest of bandits and goblins, just a short walk away from the walls. Given all this there would be plenty of work for bodyguards within the city. Look at all the "guard dogs" Umbacano has in his manor. Every single wealthy residence ought to be like that. With all the people who go traveling, there is plenty of opportunity for more bodyguard contracts there. The Legion might patrol the roads, but I cannot tell you how many times I found people being chased and killed by the wildlife (especially those Black Horse Couriers). Then there would be all the work that IRL private investigators get, such as missing persons, etc... When landlords have to throw someone out because they didn't pay the rent, I bet they'd like a Nord or Orc from the FG there to prevent trouble. If someone won big in the Arena, having a FG member walk you to the bank would certainly be welcome! Jensine should have hired the FG to deal with Thoronir. Agronak should have done the same to have someone investigate Crowhaven. Umbacano could have done likewise to get his Ancestor statues. Any time there was a big event that needed extra security, like a special showing at a museum, a grand ball, and so forth, the FG would be hired. Look at how huge a business private security is IRL, or the Pinkertons were in the Old West. The FG would be exactly the same. The list of possibilities goes on an on.

The lack of a presence in the IC is something I fixed in my fan fic. In it, the FG is not only a group of mercenaries, but also semi-lawmen, who can be activated by the Empire in times of crisis to serve alongside the Imperial Legion and/or City Guards. Many are former legion in fact. As such the entire FG fought at the Battle of Bruma, and most of them died there. They also have standing rules of engagement to fight bandits and other outlaws whenever they encounter them. This is an outgrowth of their original role as the only form of armed protection people had after the local armies of the provinces had been dissolved. As Teresa learned herself:

A. You had a point here. I would say that jail, waterfront and university could be considered suburbs, had a function to the city and are nearer to IC than Sideways Cave, but I must to recognize that this is open to interpretation.

B.Well, if they present a document signed by a dremora lord, saying that they had been killed defending the city, it's enough for me .

With the 'class' thing, however, if Alessia Ottus shares the views of the majority of the Imperial City, the Mages are scum, and the Fighters Guild are noble warriors. Here are some excerpts from some of her 'Guide to....'




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Correct!
Unlike the Imperial Legion, the FIghters Guild carry out private contracts. So whereas the Legion will be out clearing the roads and hunting bad guys, the FG will be keeping Rats out of your basemant.
In fact the IC FG should be the busiest hall in the province. Worried nobles coming to them to keep watch for thieves, concerned politician coming to them to keep watch for assasins, etc.

I too was very astonished at the lack of FG presence in the IC. This is the explanation I reached, and it seems similar to what others are saying. The fighters guild was chartered by the empire originally to train akavir mercenaries for the empire. In OB time, it is an organization dedicated to training and employing lawful mercenaries. They go where help in the form of a trained fighter is needed, and as the FG quest line shows, their work opportunity is growing thin. Given that the IC is filled with the empire's best guards, the fighters guild would have no work. The FG essentially tends to the problems that the guards cannot be troubled by, like rats in a basemant, gathering items, or retrieving heirlooms.

As for the mages guild, the arcane university is in the IC because it is actually a university. What better place for a prestigious university then the capital city of the empire?

So to sum it up, both the FG and the MG are interested in money. For the MG, the best money is in the IC, so thats precisely where they set their headquarters. For the FG, there is no money in the IC, so they do not bother having a presence there.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I think you just contradicted yourself.
Even though the Guards are the best in the IC, they still shouldn't be allowed to do Rats in Basemant and bodyguarding. That is what the Fighters Guild do, the Guards keep the streets free of crime.

Apparently the rats in the IC like it better in the sewers than in people's basemants.

If Arvena Thelas lived there, they would change their mind.

That may be the very reason there is no FG chapter in the IC: Too much demand, not enough members. If there were too many Noble and politicians demanding FG protection, FG members would have to be pulled from other guild halls to do it all. Then the people of the other towns would complain to their counts/countesses. They, in turn, would begin to pressure the Elder Council and it would turn into a huge political mess. On the other hand, if the FG didn't provide all the desired protection in the IC, the nobles and politicians there would raise a political poo storm. Either way, the FG's Imperial Charter would likely be revoked for causing so much political chaos.

Why not give the FG an Imperial Stipend so they can more easily recruit additional members, you ask? Because the money given to the FG would likely come from the Imperial Legion's budget, which is not likely to happen. You know Nobles & politicians wouldn't take pay cuts to support it.

Just a theory. :shrug: