Fixing the 64x64 cell havok bug. For when you just want a bi : V - Skyrim

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:41 am

If it were a precision issue, wouldn't it then affect both the X, Y, and Z axis?
In this case it is only the X-axis that is problematic.

Not necessarily, it would depend on how the coordinates system was coded. If it was coded correctly all cases of 'coord getting' would be handled separately - All functions to get the x-axis, then separate functions to get y-axis, and yet another set of functions to get the z-axis... then even more functions to get all 3 at once to pinpoint where an actor was...

If it was coded incorrectly, then skip to the last bit of _a_ function to get x, y, & z axis coords at once... bad way to do it for something as big/complex as Skyrim (or any game like it really)...

So the assertion it being a precision issue could be correct.

However, given it only affects animated actors (NPC/Critters) that walk on the ground, no inanimate items, nor the PC, I personally think it's something in the NPC/Critter hkx files interacting (or rather not interacting) with the navmesh... So maybe when Bethesda fixes the navmesh issue, this one will resolve itself (one hopes... oh does one hope. :blush:

)

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:15 am

Yes, your point being that you claim that because you cannot tell if I am lying, my arguments are wrong. I recommend you look this up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy. I only say that it looks like a precision issue to me, and if it is, Bethesda can't easily fix it.

Congratulations on being an astronaut though. You sure are awesome.

You did indeed miss my point. I did not say you were lying, I did not say your arguments where wrong. I did say it could very well be a precision issue, that you could very well be right. I also said just because someone claims something on the internet doesn't automatically make them right/correct (paraphrasing myself in an attempt to clarify)... It's just a fact of the internet. *shrug*

I am familiar with that link, I refer people to it all the time elsewhere. Fun Link isn't it? :banana:

Thanks, being an astronaut is great! All the Tang I could ever want! :cool:

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:20 pm

I'm certainly thinking for expanding Tamriel itself then multiple worldspaces is the way to go - as stated before something like MERP could be problematic as if it's not possible to create environmental barriers down the edges of the usable worldspace you are indeed left with the option of thousands of tiny doors. Also wouldn't it mean you couldn't have NPCs etc cross over this border? When it's a thin mountain pass it's not so bad but if it occurs on a wide open plain I'm sure it'd be a ballache.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:43 am

However, given it only affects animated actors (NPC/Critters) that walk on the ground, no inanimate items, nor the PC, I personally think it's something in the NPC/Critter hkx files interacting (or rather not interacting) with the navmesh... So maybe when Bethesda fixes the navmesh issue, this one will resolve itself (one hopes... oh does one hope. :blush:

)

Actually, that's a great point.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:05 pm

Good to see this getting back into trying to solve the problem rather than bickering about it being deserved, the merits of the thread and all the other off subject nonsense I asked people to try not to do (self included, oops including this reply) Right back at me then. Ouch.

Anyway, interesting direction and that it could actually be contained within the hkx files. Has anyone tried the settings posted by shade_me? It will be a few hours before I can take a shot at that but its well worth a try.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:59 pm

Good to see this getting back into trying to solve the problem rather than bickering about it being deserved, the merits of the thread and all the other off subject nonsense I asked people to try not to do (self included, oops including this reply) Right back at me then. Ouch.

Anyway, interesting direction and that it could actually be contained within the hkx files. Has anyone tried the settings posted by shade_me? It will be a few hours before I can take a shot at that but its well worth a try.

Yar, sorry.. sometimes I just can't help but being a sarcastic hyper-intelligent-stubborn-pack-animal. :biggrin:

Haven't tried them yet.. working on a few other things, but I'll give it a whirl here in a bit and see if that works.

As to the hkx files, I'm holding out some sliver of hope that TheHologram will pop out with his discovery and maybe narrow down, or even solve the issue...

Wouldn't it be amusing, in a sad ironic way, if the community (once again) solved a bethesda problem, not in one way, but in multiple ways? :whistling:

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:31 pm

Wouldnt be surprising in the least. I still imagine one day going into the game to test things and suddenly finding that its fixed. That hallelujah moment will hopefully come sooner than later. It will be a few hours before I can go try the settings in game so if anyone hits the eureka moment, please shout up quickly.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:18 pm

Yar, sorry.. sometimes I just can't help but being a sarcastic hyper-intelligent-stubborn-pack-animal. :biggrin:

Haven't tried them yet.. working on a few other things, but I'll give it a whirl here in a bit and see if that works.

As to the hkx files, I'm holding out some sliver of hope that TheHologram will pop out with his discovery and maybe narrow down, or even solve the issue...

Wouldn't it be amusing, in a sad ironic way, if the community (once again) solved a bethesda problem, not in one way, but in multiple ways? :whistling:

What discovery..!??

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:57 am

What discovery..!??

I should have said 'progress' instead of discovery, but I suppose discovery works as well with his decryption success (in yellow below)

From http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1336657-rel-havok-animation-converter-thread-2/page__st__90...

Just a heads up, I've made some major progress with reading the havok behavior files. This includes decrypting the complete list of classes that are custom for Bethesda. In theory that means read/writing the custom files which should enable custom animation. Not promising timelines but if things continue going this well then I should have a release late this weekend.

Also looking into fore's issue with animation timing being slightly off. Fixing that is hampered by updates to the nif.xml from niftools team which is leading to files that are not valid but again hopefully by this weekend. Bad news is that I'm not going to be able to convert files backward to previous releases. (Such as 2011.3 to 2010.2 or 2010.2 to 6.6 which the former would be useful for people using Max 2012 and the later for potential use of Havok Behavior Tool. Not completely infeasible but still quite a bit of work I think to get it right.

Gah... hate it when I hit submit instead of preview... anyways.. why I think this may help us out... By decrypting those files, giving us the info on the classes used by Beth for animations/models (i.e. NPC/Critters) that may help someone come up with the reason for the problem (or point to the area of the problem) and hopefully let someone make/come up with a fix.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:48 am

I should have said 'progress' instead of discovery, but I suppose discovery works as well with his decryption success (in yellow below)

From http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1336657-rel-havok-animation-converter-thread-2/page__st__90...

Gah... hate it when I hit submit instead of preview... anyways.. why I think this may help us out... By decrypting those files, giving us the info on the classes used by Beth for animations/models (i.e. NPC/Critters) that may help someone come up with the reason for the problem (or point to the area of the problem) and hopefully let someone make/come up with a fix.

Hopefully, but might it be possible to persuade 'The Hologram' to have a look at Havok with the collision bug in mind? If he's deconstructing Havok anyway, he might be able to point to the right area or perhaps even make a real effort himself to try to isolate and negate the bug....
Just a thought.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:04 am

Well full diagnosis is 75% fix in my opinion so fingers crossed

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:42 am

Hopefully, but might it be possible to persuade 'The Hologram' to have a look at Havok with the collision bug in mind? If he's deconstructing Havok anyway, he might be able to point to the right area or perhaps even make a real effort himself to try to isolate and negate the bug....
Just a thought.

I'm keeping an eye on the thread and his progress... waiting to see what he comes up with... He might already be aware of the issue, but I do plan on broaching it with him soon.

Well full diagnosis is 75% fix in my opinion so fingers crossed

heh, usually I'd agree with that sentiment, but this is a Bethesda game we're talking about here. :confused:

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:29 pm

I'm certainly thinking for expanding Tamriel itself then multiple worldspaces is the way to go - as stated before something like MERP could be problematic as if it's not possible to create environmental barriers down the edges of the usable worldspace you are indeed left with the option of thousands of tiny doors. Also wouldn't it mean you couldn't have NPCs etc cross over this border? When it's a thin mountain pass it's not so bad but if it occurs on a wide open plain I'm sure it'd be a ballache.

Meant to reply to this earlier, then forgot...

With the script from the morroblivion folks, if it can be converted to Skyrim (and it should be doable), then while still having to split up worldspaces to avoid the x-axis issue, all you'd need to do is to make overlapping worldspaces (a cell's width should be enough) and then modify the script to check when the PC (or NPC/Crtter if someone is feeling ambitious) hits that area and do the teleport... LOD generation is doable so while there'd be a loading screen (unless someone comes up with a way to not show it, or show just a dialogue box instead) it should be mostly painless...

If the script can be converted (or one made that does the same thing), and the LOD is generated so things look correct from either 'side' of the worldspace, I'm fairly sure that the user base wouldn't mind overmuch a load screen (yea, I'm sure someone will $%^# about it,but you can't please everyone eh?)

Anywho, to reiterate the script from the morroblivion side...

Anyways, as posted on their forums here's the oblivion script if someone wants to give it a go at conversion before I get to it (will be a while)

Spoiler

scn akdistancetravelquestscript
short x
short y
short z
short zrot
;ref cell
ref weather
begin gamemode
player.addspell akspelllocate

;TELEPORT IN

if player.getinworldspace tamriel == 1
set x to player.getpos x
set y to player.getpos y
set z to player.getpos z
;set zrot to 0

;These are references of the difference in coordinates needed to match the position in the two worlds.
;They can be adjusted to telly closer or further from Morrowind.

;Older -farther away
;x- 300147
;y- 309191
;z- 529
;closer to hieghtmap island
;x- 346526
;y- 282717

;closer to hieghtmap island and further from Morro Island
;x- 512090
;y- 288804

set x to x - 300147
set y to y - 309191
;set z to z - 529
set z to -5

If (x > -221053) && (x < 186182) && (y < 228068) && (y > -129835)
if player.isswimming == 1
;message "Teleporting In....."
player.positionworld x, y, z, zrot, wrldmorrowind
forceweather weather
;message "teleported in"
endif

else
;message "not close enough!"
endif
;TELEPORT OUT
elseif player.getinworldspace wrldmorrowind == 1
If(player.getpos x < -221053) || (player.getpos x > 186182) || (player.getpos y < -129835) || (player.getpos y > 228068)
set x to player.getpos x
set y to player.getpos y
set z to player.getpos z
;set zrot to 0
set weather to Getcurrentweatherid
;If tellying out does the equal and opposite of tellying in, you get a telly loop.
;We must push the player further out, so that he must turn around to come back in.
;Plus, we must compensate for what the box has cut off.
;if x >0 then player is leaving to the right. Add higher x numbers to push further right.
if x >= 186182
set x to x + 16214
elseif x <= -221053
;if you leave to the left, and you'd end up deep in silgrad tower, this moves you closer to the morrowind border.
if y <= 80276
set x to x + 116021

endif
elseif y >= 228068
set y to y + 10
elseif y <= -129835
set y to y - 2000

endif
set x to x + 300147
set y to y + 309191
set z to -5
;message "Tellying Out....."
player.positionworld x, y, z, zrot, tamriel
forceweather weather
endif
;elseIf (x > 233812) && (x < 501058) && (y < 470084) && (y > 146479)
;message "reseting"
endif
end

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:01 pm

I'm keeping an eye on the thread and his progress... waiting to see what he comes up with... He might already be aware of the issue, but I do plan on broaching it with him soon.

heh, usually I'd agree with that sentiment, but this is a Bethesda game we're talking about here. :confused:

Haha love it! :biggrin:

But seriously, I sometimes think Bethesda underestimate our ambitions, well not mine personally, but as a collective, we do set our sights on Mount Everest and I doubt this is foremost on their minds when they're producing a landmass like Skyrim in comparison to Mes or Middle Earth. They probably envisage a modding community to encompass the skyrim heightmap. What works for them is well within the confines of what we dream up, and there I think the problem lies, and the inevitable bugs? I mean imagine you want to create a small settlement somewhere, you build it up and it's a nice comfortable place to live, and then a member of that settlement says "Sod this, there are thousands of miles of potential around this settlement, I'm off to explore it and turn it into a much bigger landmass where we can build hundreds of settlements?" I'm waffling a bit, but do you see my point? In other words we're taking things beyond the boundaries of the working space Bethesda have used to produce Skyrim, and that inevitably will cause problems to occur, so it's not really bethesda's fault, it's ours for being so imaginative. But we'll do it I believe if we stay true to our course and remain determined enough. Let's get this straight we are pioneering into the depths of what is possible in modding terms, and that will always be hit with heavy setbacks from time to time.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:27 am

>snip lots of good words<

I sorta agree... however history of TES games has demonstrated that the mod community has, wants to, and will extend the landmasses... it's been a repeated thing since oh... ever! So this 'desire' of the modding community should 1) not be a surprise by now and 2) should have been taken into account by Beth.

The devs love us of course (or love to hate us! ) because we want/do all kinds of weird things to their engine that they didn't have time/permission/the idea to do themselves... they're around the forums a lot trying to help us out where they can (and are allowed to)... and I can't imagine the devs just going "Oh bugs? ef em, we don't care".... It's more a 'suit' decision whether or not something gets fixed... and 'suits' generally prefer 'quick and easy' fixes to 'that bug is gonna be a right royal :swear:

to fix"... and the devs have to keep in mind their jobs... they can't fight/argue/debate/discuss to hard that something _needs_ to be fixed... they have to _justify_ it to the suits... what's the RoI (Return on Investment)... er...

I'm gonna stop now, but you get the idea.. there's a lot of factors involved, but at the end of the day, a coder, somewhere (at Beth or Havoc) missed something... Whether it's a precision point error, a navmesh conflict, or something else entirely... It _is_ Bethesda's issue to fix... and they've said they 'Have no plans to fix it'...

Now that may change, but unless it does, we're on our own.

It'd be nice though if a dev could let us know the exact problem (or at least point us to it) so we can fix it ourselves... But I don't see the suits allowing them to do so... that might imply liability or taking responsibility or something like that. :wallbash:

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:14 pm

I sorta agree... however history of TES games has demonstrated that the mod community has, wants to, and will extend the landmasses... it's been a repeated thing since oh... ever! So this 'desire' of the modding community should 1) not be a surprise by now and 2) should have been taken into account by Beth.

The devs love us of course (or love to hate us! ) because we want/do all kinds of weird things to their engine that they didn't have time/permission/the idea to do themselves... they're around the forums a lot trying to help us out where they can (and are allowed to)... and I can't imagine the devs just going "Oh bugs? ef em, we don't care".... It's more a 'suit' decision whether or not something gets fixed... and 'suits' generally prefer 'quick and easy' fixes to 'that bug is gonna be a right royal :swear:

to fix"... and the devs have to keep in mind their jobs... they can't fight/argue/debate/discuss to hard that something _needs_ to be fixed... they have to _justify_ it to the suits... what's the RoI (Return on Investment)... er...

I'm gonna stop now, but you get the idea.. there's a lot of factors involved, but at the end of the day, a coder, somewhere (at Beth or Havoc) missed something... Whether it's a precision point error, a navmesh conflict, or something else entirely... It _is_ Bethesda's issue to fix... and they've said they 'Have no plans to fix it'...

Now that may change, but unless it does, we're on our own.

It'd be nice though if a dev could let us know the exact problem (or at least point us to it) so we can fix it ourselves... But I don't see the suits allowing them to do so... that might imply liability or taking responsibility or something like that. :wallbash:

Wierd things? I'm not so sure about that? Have you seen their recent mod demonstration, with things like seasonal changes and so forth and other amazing effects? I hope they release some of them things soon as they'll be an enormous plus?

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:57 pm

Wierd things? I'm not so sure about that? Have you seen their recent mod demonstration, with things like seasonal changes and so forth and other amazing effects? I hope they release some of them things soon as they'll be an enormous plus?

Haven't bothered to watch the 'mod jam' video... but I've read about all the 'cool things' they did... it would be nice if they released them as free DLC (or even nominal cost DLC) as it would open up a lot of new areas for us to mod in/with/muck about... But I see it opening new cans of worms for us to deal with as well given the state of the CK... now if they give us a substantial fix to the CK, like oh, maybe fix half the damned bugs from the CK bug list thread, that would be nice. Not expecting it though; See 'suits' commentary in previous posts. :down:

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:30 pm

Meant to reply to this earlier, then forgot...

With the script from the morroblivion folks, if it can be converted to Skyrim (and it should be doable), then while still having to split up worldspaces to avoid the x-axis issue, all you'd need to do is to make overlapping worldspaces (a cell's width should be enough) and then modify the script to check when the PC (or NPC/Crtter if someone is feeling ambitious) hits that area and do the teleport... LOD generation is doable so while there'd be a loading screen (unless someone comes up with a way to not show it, or show just a dialogue box instead) it should be mostly painless...

If the script can be converted (or one made that does the same thing), and the LOD is generated so things look correct from either 'side' of the worldspace, I'm fairly sure that the user base wouldn't mind overmuch a load screen (yea, I'm sure someone will $%^# about it,but you can't please everyone eh?)

Anywho, to reiterate the script from the morroblivion side...

I figured the LOD would work exactly like you said but if the scripting is efficient with NPC 'teleporting' and can continue whatever state they're in between two worldspaces that sounds pretty excellent insofar as a workaround's concerned.

I sorta agree... however history of TES games has demonstrated that the mod community has, wants to, and will extend the landmasses... it's been a repeated thing since oh... ever! So this 'desire' of the modding community should 1) not be a surprise by now and 2) should have been taken into account by Beth.

The devs love us of course (or love to hate us! ) because we want/do all kinds of weird things to their engine that they didn't have time/permission/the idea to do themselves... they're around the forums a lot trying to help us out where they can (and are allowed to)... and I can't imagine the devs just going "Oh bugs? ef em, we don't care".... It's more a 'suit' decision whether or not something gets fixed... and 'suits' generally prefer 'quick and easy' fixes to 'that bug is gonna be a right royal :swear:

to fix"... and the devs have to keep in mind their jobs... they can't fight/argue/debate/discuss to hard that something _needs_ to be fixed... they have to _justify_ it to the suits... what's the RoI (Return on Investment)... er...

I agree with that, although since it's you know, sorta the biggest selling RPG of all time maybe they'll get on it once they've stopped swimming in their pools of money in the style of Scrooge McDuck. Till then I guess innovation is the name of the game for the modding community. That and patience.. 60.2% complete generating LOD textures.. come onnnnn CK..

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:58 am

But seriously, I sometimes think Bethesda underestimate our ambitions, well not mine personally, but as a collective, we do set our sights on Mount Everest and I doubt this is foremost on their minds when they're producing a landmass like Skyrim in comparison to Mes or Middle Earth.

Bethesda is just going to have to wake up and realize that, as randomly generated as it was, they, themselves, set the standard with Daggerfall. Why would anybody want to be restricted to a world of only a few miles in area when you could have THOUSANDS of miles instead?

Sadly, this seems to be the different perspectives on the issue...

Game Developers:
Big, broad, and generic --> Smaller and more detailed

Gamers:
Big, broad, and generic --> Bigger, broader, and more detailed

I refuse to believe that 1996 technology can create a larger, more realistic world than 2011 technology. The game design is there already. Just focus most resources on audio and visuals.

Can anyone honestly tell me they wouldn't buy Daggerfall with Skyrim's looks and sound? Oh, yes... now I'm going to have to pinch myself for dreaming :-P

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:01 pm

Bethesda is just going to have to wake up and realize that, as randomly generated as it was, they, themselves, set the standard with Daggerfall. Why would anybody want to be restricted to a world of only a few miles in area when you could have THOUSANDS of miles instead?

As has been mentioned previously, this fix will probably require permission of the suits at Bethesda. Let me ask you something. Why should they pay (salaries, among other things) to fix something that isn't broken? Before you shout me down, understand that the Creation Kit was made to mod SKYRIM and Skyrim fits in a 4x4 quad area. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see this fixed, but so far, the reasons that have been given are to allow modders to create a copywrited landmass (Middle Earth), which basically would be used to create a whole new game on Bethesda's IP without compensation. Not to mention the legal ramifications that both Bethesda and the modders would get themselves into if Tolkien's family found out, and Tolkien's family doesn't play around. Then there is the desire to create the other parts of the continent. Again, why should Bethesda allow this? It has nothing to do with modding Skyrim.

As far as creating the other parts of the continent goes, if you'll notice, all of the routes out of Skyrim funnel down to rather small paths that would be perfect places to add a "portal" to another world space. One path to Morrowind even goes through a stone arch.

Looking at this from Bethesda's point of view, it simply isn't broken. If they are to fix this, we would need to give them a pretty compelling reason to do so.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:01 pm

I think that ultimately you are right, in that Bethesda can probably see no benefit in fixing this. The point of this thread is to find a third party workaround. We have tried in other threads to debate and put forward good reasons for fixing the problem. Bethesda have decided no way, so thats ended our efforts.

As we have a 4x16 quad slice of operable worldspace, I could divide Mesogea by introducing a couple of rivers and adjusting some of the Mountain areas to provide choke points. Middle Earth could potentially do the same I think.

1st section Western Sea to Brandywine, Emyn Uial south through Minhiriath to the Gwathlo (who is to say that an upland or series of cliffs does not split Minhiriath north to south?)
2nd Section to Misty Mts, choke points are the passes, under Mt Gundabad, Fords of Isen and bridges over the Morthond,

3rd Section etc

I am unsure however how to progress and create four slices of land in L3dt, so if Maegfaer is listening maybe we could chat in pvt and hash it out, see what kind of possibilities there are. I am fairly free with Mesogea. I still write so recall many geographical areas in my book that I can adjust (cant wait to finish my degree so I can go back to the agent and get this bl00dy book finished) so adjusting Mesogea physically on the map is only a matter for me marrying novel and mod geography and thats a problem of my own sorting. As you say, there are choke points for the rest of Tamriel too, so it may be the best way to go.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:46 pm

As has been mentioned previously, this fix will probably require permission of the suits at Bethesda. Let me ask you something. Why should they pay (salaries, among other things) to fix something that isn't broken? Before you shout me down, understand that the Creation Kit was made to mod SKYRIM and Skyrim fits in a 4x4 quad area. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see this fixed, but so far, the reasons that have been given are to allow modders to create a copywrited landmass (Middle Earth), which basically would be used to create a whole new game on Bethesda's IP without compensation. Not to mention the legal ramifications that both Bethesda and the modders would get themselves into if Tolkien's family found out, and Tolkien's family doesn't play around. Then there is the desire to create the other parts of the continent. Again, why should Bethesda allow this? It has nothing to do with modding Skyrim.

As far as creating the other parts of the continent goes, if you'll notice, all of the routes out of Skyrim funnel down to rather small paths that would be perfect places to add a "portal" to another world space. One path to Morrowind even goes through a stone arch.

Looking at this from Bethesda's point of view, it simply isn't broken. If they are to fix this, we would need to give them a pretty compelling reason to do so.

You make a very good point.

And really, the rest of the continent can be designed by piecing together 4x4 quad chunks. It's not like people would be hitting load screeens every few seconds. even if the landscape of a 4x4 quad chunk was completely flat, it would take a fair amount of time to go from one side to the next.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:27 pm

As we have a 4x16 quad slice of operable worldspace, I could divide Mesogea by introducing a couple of rivers and adjusting some of the Mountain areas to provide choke points. Middle Earth could potentially do the same I think.

It doesn't need to be an extreme barrier... It just needs a slope that is just steep enough that the player cannot climb it.

Plus, there could be a script that handles chunk transition.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:03 am

I think that ultimately you are right, in that Bethesda can probably see no benefit in fixing this. The point of this thread is to find a third party workaround. We have tried in other threads to debate and put forward good reasons for fixing the problem. Bethesda have decided no way, so thats ended our efforts.

I'm sorry. I forgot the point of the thread when I posted. I was still back in the other thread while I was thinking. If anything, I clearly stated why we cannot expect help from Bethesda. If they fix it, great, but don't hold your breath.

» Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:33 am

I don't think too many actual end users will really complain if they can't see for 18 miles anyway, providing any mountains you put in the way look awesome. So long as the impassable bits just say to the player - "you're never gonna be able to climb this dude" or the possible "snowstorm of doom will wipe you out if you try" as seen on the Throat Of The World. It's almost a shame mind, that we don't have Fallout's option of irradiated areas...

"..dear Bethesda, please write nuclear holocaust into the official, canon lore of Tamriel as it's easier than you fixing the stupid bug"

Then again I'm totally putting impassable ash storms and lava rivers into the Morrowind map.