The Oil Rig was planned before the war, probably along side Project Safehouse what with them being very similar. How did the American government know that all the societal up-heavals that occured in the Vaults wouldn't occur onboard the Oil Rig, sure the Rig had no planned flaw but when they put all there people on there knowing they wouldn't go outside for decades they surely faced similar problems to maybe Vault 101 or one of the Control Vaults. I thought they already did risk it all by putting themselves on the Rig, particularly when they had already been planning how such an idea could so easy fail and kill them all.

The Vaults were Social Experiment, how isolationism, rationing of supplies etc. would affect the American citizen and then one other factor to drive them over the edge.

Just because a bad movie uses it doesn't invalidate it.

Anyways, meeting an advanced alien race is unlikely enough to invalidate it I suppose. Everything else except meeting aliens is completely realistic though. Accelerating rocks to high speeds and smashing them into planets is a very doable and very unstoppable form of cosmic warfare.

If you wanted to take the aliens out of the picture, I suppose you can replace them with a human colony in another system, that maybe comes under the sway of some crazy fascist dictator. Human colonies on other systems is also unlikely, but in the far future quite plausible.

The most likely source of people from another world hurling rocks at us would be a hostile society on Mars, but they wouldn't be rocks accelerated to appreciable fractions of light speed, so you might have some options, plus communication between the worlds would be very easy: it would be harder for things to get to the hurling asteroids stage.

Sorry, got my machine based presidents confused there. lol

Because of the way Bethseda wrote this part, one can only guess here.
But I got the feeling Autumn was one of the few people in the Enclave that really knew Eden was a machine. This made him a liability to Eden in some ways. And of course when Autumn started questioning Eden's directives, Eden starts looking for a replacement. Autumn realizes he's losing control of the situtation and could do better by leading the Enclave himself.

What's the difference between people on other planets lobbing asteroids at each other and people in different countries lobbing nukes at each other? Too plausible for you? You seem to be operating under the assumption that any conflict will inevitably escalate to dueling doomsday devices.

The mutually assured destruction doctrine kept people from nuking each other (in real life, not in the game) why wouldn't it keep people from crashing asteroids into each other?

I think he was the only one who knew Eden was a machine, something which I just have too http://img842.imageshack.us/i/enclavefacepalm.jpg/ at, I mean what, in 30 years of NO elections (because the Enclave is the GOVERNMENT, not just an army you morons!) nobody got a bit inquisitive. I like to imagine that somewhere there was a room which was supposed to be Eden's room and 3 times a day a soldier came along and pushed a meal through a little flap or something but then I remember.

It is never explained how nobody knew Eden was a computer so who knows?

Maybe he posed as multiple people, I mean he is a machine.

He could just change his voice.

Perhaps, that is at least AN explaination which is better than nothing I suppose. Actually, I may just roll with that because it makes more sense that the alternative. Was too busy Beth-hating to think of an alternate reason :blush:

You are not alone in that.

But at least that..

Thing... Fallout 3 served as a foundation for Fallout New Vegas

Actually, think of Mr. House's setup in FONV, he's alive, sorta. It wouldn't be too far a leap of faith to think since Col. Autumn is running the day to day activities of the base, most if not all of the other people in the base wouldn't even concern themselves about Pres Eden's whereabouts. And any who'd stop to think about it, would assume Eden was either in a secure part of the base or off site all together, and was communacating by satilite.

Easy enough, anytime a new election is needed, they hold the election, Eden rigs it so he wins. Every so often Eden changes his name and personna, and a "new" president is installed.

Machines..

THEY WILL DESTROY M-

Terminated.

No group truly thinks their Evil and they can easily justify themselves. In my opinion more games need to follow this example of better storywriting etc.

The only gripe I have with CL is-unlike NCR- you don't actually see any concequence of their deeds apart from bad ones.....It would have been cool to visit a proper city of Caeser's Legionnaires and see their scientists and well treated women etc (and perhaps see some proper roman hedonism!)

Read the Ender's Game books. The ones that follow Ender. This is the primary dilemma. Though ignore the spirituality, it still gets into the concept of a hostile entity you can't negotiate with.

But this is largely a tangent. That's still different than the genocide the Enclave was proposing. Unless you're a paranoid psychotic, anyway.

If the Enclave learned something from the vault projects it is having some hard time implementing it lol.

It doesn't need to grow to start having civil wars.

In FO2 you can convince an enclave scientist to help you destroy the Oil rig and you can recruit enclave troopers to help you fight out of it.

If FO3 showed us that civil wars are already in progress within the enclave when Eden and Autumn disagreed.

In FONV there are the Remnants

There is also some defectors in all Fallouts where Enclave was involved.

The only thing that unifies the Enclave is the very fact that there are other factions vying for power. If Enclave was left as the soul heir to humanity it would quickly fracture.

Perhaps... hell perhaps the Enclave isn't as secure as I would have liked to have thought. But the only reason these people defected was because of the morality of The Project, if the had won in 2242, the scientist wouldn't have defected (because it was only the Chosen One who talked him into it) and Autumn would only be 20. If everyone was already dead what would there be in the Enclave for them to fight about?

the developers wanted to narrate a game with more grey than black and white. Csaesar's legion would not seem that bad to marcus aurelius or augustus caesar....they have a different value system from modern democracies.


if you value stability and order and honor, the CL is for you.
if you value some level of democracy, rule of law, freedom to do your own thing.......NCR.

some merchants prefer CL
and raul says positive things about legion.

this of it this way:


A hard living tribe barely suriving gets conquered by caesar and has food, a credo, and a crusade...the might like it.
if the CL killed your family at nipton, you probably hate CL.

Just because something happened in the past and is now over doesn't mean people stop having feelings about it. Without an enemy there will be no need for strong military style group cohesion and debates will arise. Eventually one group will start bad mouthing the current members of government that participated in the genocide. The Enclave government will see to their "neutralization" an action which will piss off a lot of people and there you go, another civil war.

Yeah, Fascism, which is the governing ideology that the Enclave operated under, isn't known for being exceptionally stable.

Yes Tale, this is highly tangential The question was posed "offer me a justifiable genocide". The Ender books do have some nice exploration of the topic.



Ah, you come to the reason why I initially stipulated antagonists in different solar systems. If you launch from a different system, there is no real warning when they launch: you'll only know when it's too late. But then again, you can program your own facilities to launch as soon as you are hit, so I suppose destruction would be mutual (though delayed by a couple hundred years).

I was trying to create a situation where destruction was not mutually assured: the only way to set that up would be an imbalance of power (Ender books again are a good example) where we find some aliens that we know could destroy us in the future, if don't destroy them in the present.

You're probably thinking "why the hell does it need to be aliens again", well...with aliens you can invent any sort of bizarre situation so that we know "for sure" that they will destroy us (like some sort of plague) and thus justify the genocide. Impossible to say that group of humans is going to wipe out the race for sure unless exterminated early on: you could hypothesize a situation where it is maybe probable, but that's hardly grounds for genocide.

More like a Democracy, due to the fact that leaders are elected instead of the authoritarian rule that Fascism is known for.

Do you know how many authoritarians operated from elections? Italy under Mussolini held elections. Hitler was elected. Sadam Hussein was elected, repeatedly.

When the President operates for 22 years (dike Richardson's term), something fishy is going on.

Now we don't know that, they may be evil to the outlanders but they still want to rebuild proper civilization.