So I heard that V1.5 plugins aren't fully compatible with TESVSnip, and that some corruption can occur.

Does it only occur if you attempt to alter those forms?

Does it corrupt by the mere act of opening and saving?

What form types are affected?

It's a whole lot easier and quicker to open modules with Snip for me, as the CK takes minutes at a time just to load one module, and I can only load one active module at a time with it. But if Snip damages modules...

based on my experience (i lost hundreds of hours on a relatively large mod) its a random gamble.

the corrupted areas were all in CELL, WRLD, and possibly NAVI.

in contrast i have an esp that was extensively cut up with tessnip since pre-Ck, re-built post-ck by cut/pasting records from the original pre-ck esp and massively edited hundreds of times using tessnip, and that plugin still works perfectly. that one has many types of records, but nothing world-based.

when i re-built my corrupted mod (replicated most of the base structures for the cells and worldspaces) i could not replicate the tessnip damage (when i deliberately tried some tests using tessnip on a backup copy) even though i did everything the same.


i think the world-based records (references/navmesh etc) are the most prone to the possibility of damage, although there are many users who have used snip even more extensively than i have and they still have no problems with it, so like i said it's a gamble (seems like the odds of getting a corrupted record are low, but a risk nonetheless).

CELL, WRLD, NAVM, NAVI, LAND, IMAD, and NPC_ are all known to corrupt. NPC_ is guaranteed to right out the gate because all NPCs have compressed subrecord data which Snip is incapable of processing. The others, it's more hit and miss, but the more of those types of records you have, the more likely you are to get bit before too long. Snip in general doesn't handle compressed records of any type well, and all of these listed have compression data.

It's my opinion after seeing numerous bug reports that the "blue voids in dungeons" is a direct result of damage done by Snip, and unfortunately my alt-start mod is among the victims that will need to be rebuilt ground up to correct it. It shows up in too many of these reports to dismiss any longer and Snip damage is the only thing consistent enough to explain it.

I think I have had a similar experience to Amethyst's. I used tevsnip without any problems for a while, but one day - some time after I had done a bit of world editing for the first time in my mod - I found that one of my NPCs had turned into Camilla Valerius, and there was a chunk of the world missing. I can't be sure that Tevsnip was to blame, as by the time I noticed the problem it happened if I deleted any record using the CK, too. But I haven't used it since, and my NPCs have so far refrained from turning into Camilla again.

Edit:

Well, that would explain that

Using tesvsnip has a very similar feeling to running with scissors. It is a very useful tool, but your vital parts are very exposed. I haven't been at this for very long, but the very first time I looked at my mod in tesvsnip, the first thing that occured to me was that I could very easily botch it up with one wrong move. All of the parts of the mod are totally exposed in a very cryptic manner and there is no safety net. So I only work on files that have current backups and I save a lot, but I believe Snip is an essential tool for some tasks. I guess I am just not smart enough to figure out the hidden intricacies of the CK that would allow me to do what I think I need to do without using Snip. Finding and eliminating dirty edits seems to be one of those tasks. Cleanly splitting a mod into its esm and esp parts is another. Combining pieces of different mods into one is another. Use backup files, do what you need to do and test it carefully. If it didn't work right, go back and try it again. So far I have only had a couple of problems with it and none of those were the fault of the program as best I can tell.

One of my biggest issues was with the CK itself long before I even started using Snip. On upload to the Steam Workshop, it deleted the navmesh, npcs, many of the other references and changed all of the id numbers of the objects, including chests. And it happened at upload so the glitched file was uploading into users' computers before I even knew what had happened. I had no current backups (naturally) and worked all night to fix it. Old news and it has not happened again, but the point is that everything is a crap shoot if the CK itself cannot be trusted 100%. Rule Number 1 - Keep good backups.

I merely use Snip to add masters to .esps. To unsafe for me to do any extensive edits.

Finding and eliminating dirty edits is NOT SAFE since 99% of those will be found as subrecords of record types that have compression data. Which is what Snip can't handle.

Even the mere act of adding a master to a .esp file is enough, it still has to write out the entire file, complete with all the stuff it can't process.

It's adequate at the moment as a read-only anolysis tool, and that's it. Writing anything you intend to keep, much less release, is playing with fire on a flamethrower with no safety system.

you can add multiple masters in the CK


what i did was created an esp slaved to Skyrim.esm and Update.esm. then converted that esp to esm.

when creating a new esp that slaves to all 3, i just double clicked the new esm ONLY, left skyrim and update unchecked. i was able to save my new esp, since both skyrim and update are already masters of the custom esm, it loaded them regardless. when i saved my new esp it slaved to all 3.

the problem only comes when trying to slave an esp to multiple independent esm's

The icon doesn't help alleviate that feeling.

The symbology was not entirely lost on me. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye, as my mother used to say. Those were rougher days.

Seems to help some with snip if go into config and change to below:


True

set up as False in the config file ... still doesn't stop from messing up the world data randomly (as near as can determine) but would be nice to get SkyEdit or whatever here some day. Just info for those tht still want to use it for minor tweaks.

I'm using TESVSnip only for my compatibility plugins. Doing anything to my core file with it, is to dangerous.

So, how would I add multiple master dependencies on .esps without using TESVSnip again? In CK? How's that done?

And what about Wrye Bash, doesn't it also has such a function?

Woooooah. Did not know this. Am very glad I only use TESV Snip on a mod that doesn't use those corruptible parts much...

That actually doesn't help even if you turn it on. You'll still lose data from your NPC and your navmeshes because there are compressed subrecords within the main compressed records. Yeah, silly way of doing things, but there it is. That data will be lost if you save with Snip. Guaranteed to make a big fat mess of your NPCs and corrupt navmeshes, beyond what the navmesh bug in 1.5 already does anyway. There's also a distinct possibility that LAND records contain compressed subrecords considering the amount of data involved.


Use Wrye Bash to flip the ESM flag on them, then load them in the CK as masters. Should work fine that way, and will be perfectly safe.

Another record type you can't manipulate with Snip - IMAD. For Imagespace modifiers. The subrecord data headers on those is corrupt and can't even be viewed, much less reliably saved. Probably not many mods using those to begin with though, and using Snip to edit those would be like trying to read Sanskrit.

I clean my mods in Notepad.

So reloading the ESP then saving them back out in the CK will not remove those corruptions?

Say, I delete, with TESVSnip, the records that I suspect to be corrupt - effectively removing the corrupt records entirely from the ESP, I suspect.
Reload the ESP then recreate those records in the CK.
Will that produce an uncorrupted ESP?

What about loading the ESP in the CK, deleting suspicious records, saving the ESP - effectively removing the corrupt records; reloading the ESP then recreting them?

I've been wondering if anyone has contacted the author of TESVsnip and ask him/her to update it or release it to Public Domain so someone can bring it up to speed.

My apologies, but I just couldn't let that comment pass.

I thought that was a little odd myself

Cause I use Notepad++

That's been tried already, it didn't do any good in my case. Whatever is being corrupted is sticking to the file like glue.

If you delete the record entirely in the CK though, yes, that would remove the issue and allow you to rebuild it brand new, but that's a hit and miss game that would probably take you longer to do than simply rebuilding in most cases.

People have already tried. The project appears to have been abandoned and the author hasn't responded to any contact attempts.

I wonder if they'd really mind?

I do realize that many modders are territorial over their creative properties, which is entirely understandable -- but a community tool like TESVsnip seems a bit different.

It's licensed GPL, so I suppose if someone wants to take on the challenge, go for it.

There are better options soon to exist though, and even SkyEdit is a safer bet despite not having full record editing support.

Arthmoor - please, what options are soon to exist? And do you know how soon is soon?

TES5Gecko is in the works and has a preview release out. AliTheLord is also writing up a TES4Edit-like application that uses the SkyProc libraries, though he hasn't got anything available for preview yet. There's also still the slim hope that Elminster will gallop into the city with TES5Edit in hand to save the day.

Thanks Arthmoor. I found the forum for Gecko on Dark Creations and that looks very encouraging. I don't know how I missed all of that up till now. It is great that there are people that talented who are willing to put their time into a project like that.