My game keeps crashing every single time i try to open a save game with my mod active.

I have spent the last month and a half building this mod which is adding a large castle to the game and even more in the future. Recently, I was working on an interior and when i went to test it in game, it would crash upon loading save game. Around this time i switched from using FXAA to using RCRN and did not like it so i switched back. So i thought maybe it was a graphics issue since it does it right after the message "SSAO enabled" pops up on the screen. Well it wasn't this issue because even with FXAA post injector, ENB, and RCRN uninstalled it still crashes. SO i went through and looked at what mods I had that could be causing the crash. no mods had been added at the time but i wanted to make sure. SO i went one by one disabling the mods until i found one it did not crash with: Realistic Water Textures. With this mod and all other mods including mine it was working in game, i could go in without it crashing. SO i updated Real Water textures to the current version, and it seemed at the time to fix the issue. So i continued on working with my interiors. Once i made a finalization i wanted to test, I went in game. Upon loading a save game, it crashed.
So i went through the whole process again, even disabling all my mods except the house mod, and it crashed. My mod turned off it works perfectly fine. So i went into TesVsnip to see if i could delete lines that weren't needed in my mod, such as cells and other things that were effected by me just touching it. The only thing that was left was what my mod added - several interior cells, 2 world spaces, and alterations to a location in Tamriel. it also added location references and i created through nifscope, statics that i needed for my interior as well as a script that I'm using that overrides the default bookshelf script. making those changes did nothing as I am still having crashes. I even restarted my computer, shut off steam, rebooted that.
then i decided to make a completely new clean save game all the way from character creation. saved my progress as an actual save game, enabled my mod restarted game went in - crash. disabled my mod, restarted game, save game load fine. I just don't get it. How is my mod causing a crash? and is it even my mod that is causing the crash?
Other than the normal navmesh error upon loading the creation kit i also get errors but objects in the game having errors I never even messed with. Like some door on some ship saying it has an error and I don't even know where it is. Dummy axe, dummy bow, etc. i get errors for those and they been coming across for the longest time when loading my mod so i paid no mind to them and my mod worked fine previously. But lately I am getting this error when I try to save my mod:

Assert

File C:\_Skyrim\COde\TESV\BSPathfinding\BSNavmeshbounds.cpp

Line 1051
Too many triangles in BSNavmeshBounds

could this be causing a crash? the only option it gives me is abort, retry or ignore. SO i hit retry and it goes through. but anytime i open a new instance of the creation kit and hit save i get the above error.

anyone want to help or know what the issue could be? i am willing to send my mod to anyone who wants to look at it. maybe a second eye can help with figuring out what is wrong.

have been chasing similar crash issues for days now doing the same thing you are doing and in effect not being able to pin the cause down to a single cause. All have been able to id is that it is related to mods that modify the external world causing the CTD on trying to load a save. I was able to get about 11 small quest type mods loaded but add the next and ctd. Take one out and could add another ... but only sometimes and could see no common factor in why could or couldn't add.

Now when played with the 11 could get in had texture world issues like floating trees or rocks and eventually CTD. Disabled one of the mods (DoV) and this went away but then went into a Dungion (vanilla, one with golden claw at start) and got half way in and parts of the place were not there. Disabled another mod (hunter, part of SkyMoMod, that adds changes to interior spaces for quests) and then reloaded and the textures were back versus blue space.

Conclusion ... beats me, but looks like the game engine and CK might not be luvin each other when it comes to mod'n the world. other possibilities are that the engine can only handle so many changes to the world or possibly texture issues. At this point I am waiting for 1.5 before do any more testing. i know others are starting to run into these issues over at the nexus, if find anything hope you post as I've posted many like things over the past days.

Oh also I can generally add in as many mods as want as long as not changing the physical vanilla world ... go figure, resource bottlenecks (most mods are dirty with cells in not needed and often the same in each mod), texture incompats, or just the CK don't work with latest update to the engine all that well.

Yea i had a similar issue before when getting an interior to load an exterior and it would crash. the fix was splitting the interior and i did so. haven't had an issue since. but this issue involves loading the save game all together and not even being able to get in the game, interior load or exterior. My mod has been working test wise for a while now up until this week. And i had the exterior changes in place way before i got this issue. in fact i have had made no changes to the exterior since my last test before this. I did make changes to world spaces i created and it tested fine. only after messing around with graphics did it become an issue, i think. I had been messing around building an interior before i changed the graphics so i cannot say that was the cause. nor can i say it is a conflict with other mods either because i can create a brand new save without any mods loaded and when i load my mod it crashes.

So i have a lot of interior files and its great to know that the creation kit once again could be the cause to my dilemmas! but i will still keep testing it to see if i find a cause.

Have you consoled into the interior cell without loading a save game and then exited into the exterior to see if it crashes?

If not, maybe try that. It could be your save game is bugged.

already tried the save game purity thing doesnt work either. and i cant console into the interior because i cant load any save game, pure or mod infested. unless my mod isnt active at all but then i wouldnt be able to console into an interior that wasnt activated.

is there any program that can log process, specifically when im running my game and when it crashes to pinpoint where the problem is? im running out of ideas to test this damn thing. definately not graphics but could be textures. i ran my mod through the creation kit and cleansed of any errors that pop up other than the normal master file ones.

But this last attempt i found another problem which wasnt coming to mind because i didint think to do it, but when i tried to elect to start a new game with my mod active, it stalls. I get the nord shout and the menu dissappears but only the imperial symbol and the fog persist - nothing else happens. So something in my MOD is definately altering the game but i dont know what! i havent messed with anything that involves the start of the game or any of the scripting, i dont think.... when i tried a new game without my mod installed it of course worked perfectly fine...

I am not going to be one of those few who blame Beth for a crappy mod program because i am sure there is something i did in my mod along the way that effected it or something i did to my game (which is why i would like if someone could beta test it for me on their system to see if that is the case).

Not sure but eldiabs may be referring to using COC to go to the interior before load the game save.. I could be wrong but I thought had read could do that before load somewhere. Not sure on logging process .. might look over on Nexus site, Elys did something but can't recall (not the uncapper) what the utility did at the moment.

Oh another interesting thing ran into on starting a new game was able to get in and played the trip to Helgen but when got to Helgen only thing there was 1 tower and the entry gate, the rest of the town was gone and when tried to enter of course ctd. Weird but then most of the things running into are weird ... did about 30 restarts with mixed quest style mods and got same as you or a stall later or got in only to stall in the theifs coversation. So much fun like. Now did get through the TDP-Rivermine mod OK in latest test. I think on next series I am gonna clean every mod of the extraneous 'i thouched this cell' parts and see what happens. probably won't make a difference as one I was doing is cleaned but still won't load in the mix testing (loads fine by itself but not with the others, these things just do not wanna play well together) but heck haven't tried it yet. If want I can test yours with the mix fooling with.

private message me on here if you can or find me on the nexus forums. we can arrange sending you the file to test it on your system.

Just throwing this out there: Have any of you tried making your mods an esm? My mod crashed on load once it hit a certain size (About 7.5mb) and now I can only play it if it's an esm.

i havent really ventured into turning my mod into an ESM yet but i had plans on it in the future. So i am not knowledgeable in how that works but I am assuming by reading what i have you do this the TESVsnip or another external program. my question on that is this: can you make changes to that master file or do the changes you make turn into esp's and then your left with having to merge these changes into the master file?

No you cannot make changes to an esm within the CK.

What I've been doing is: Copying my esp to my desktop, changing the file extension to esm, and putting it back in my data folder. Open it with the ck, then save it and close ck. It's now an esm. Use that one to test, then when you're doing, dispose of it and continue working on the esp version of it.

It's not the best way, but it works and is all I've got for now. I'm hoping Beth adds ESM editing to custom files in the CK so I can just work with it as an esm...

You can COC directly into a cell from the load screen. You do not need a save game to do so. One of the Creation Kit videos shows this being done. Just make sure you have a coc marker in your cell. Otherwise I think it puts you at 0,0,0.

Testing new interiors from save games is a pretty bad idea.

On the subject of cleaning my mod, I have been using TESVsnip to clean my mod and got it cleaned quite drastically by doing it manually, deleting records that had no part in my mod. it has reduced the size which is good to be honest. But when i try to do the auto clean under spells, i get an error that says: "One or more dependencies are not loaded, and will be ignored."then it tells me that no records removed. I have no clue what dependency it is talking about, i have had no mods loaded or needing a load while constructing my mod. In fact, under the TES4 on the mod loading in TESVsnip it lists the plugin dependencies, and they are the master files Skyrim and Update. Those are the only two dependencies. do I need to have those loaded when cleaning?? and how do i load those?

Reading into some of what others have said on creating an ESM, it came to my assumption that it was done through TESVsnip as well. Under the spells drop down, it has an option "make ESM". but when i select my esp and highlight that, i get the following error: "Plugin has no TES4 record". and you can clearly see on TESVsnip it does have a record!

I have used Skyedit before but never got too far into it so i dont know if it has a cleaning utility. i can always download the most up to date.

In Wrye Bash when i go to clean my mod Under scan for UDR i get this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "bash\basher", line 14687, in Execute
File "bash\bosh", line 13588, in scan_Many
File "bash\bosh", line 13718, in _scan_Python
File "bash\brec", line 301, in unpackRecHeader
File "bash\game\skyrim", line 779, in unpack
bash.brec.ModError: housemod(snipped2).esp: Bad header type:

What does bad header type mean?

When i try to remove orphaned cells I get this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "bash\basher", line 13796, in Execute
KeyError: 'CELL'

is that normal to get errors???

Now here comes to the fun part! I found in Wrye Bash the ability to create ESM's with the click of a button! and when i tested the newly created ESM in game it worked! no more crash upon loading save game. i was able to free roam and everything with all mods loaded.... But with a catch.

This may be only a problem because it was done utilizing Wrye Bash but, all the worldspace edits i made, were gone. Edits such as movement of existing trees, landscape alterations... all gone. the only thing that persisted was what i added which were the statics. also there were things i deleted too that were in the tamriel worldspace, that are back!
i disabled the original esp too and only used the esm. is this normal? do i need a seperate esp for landscape editing on the skyrim esm? or did a problem occur during wrye bash transfer? I would hate to have to go back and do that landscape editing again only to find that i cant do it with an ESM.

yea it is simple enough but a head ache but it still gives me an issue with landscape edits and deletion of certain statics in the worldspace not showing up! everything added shows up but nothing removed or edited shows up externally.

consoling into a cell is great but how do you do it for an exterior at the menu when you want to test it?

testing a mod with a save game may be bad but what about not being able to start a new game?

I have gone through with TESVsnip and it says no records are needed for deletion under cleaning esp and i did load dependancy files which were the master files. what gives?

okay so i tried this with my esp. interestingly enough im getting the same response i get with loading a new game: game is unresponsive. I have to Alt+tab out to find that its not responding then it crashes. i tried that without my mod and was successfully in the game. So... something is effecting my esp to where it..... clashes with the game itself.....? but yet works perfectly fine as an ESM... kind of. still have the issue with landscapes and things being removed not showing up but im assuming that is because it is an ESM and not an ESP....

The 'coc' equivalent for worldspaces is 'Cow X Y WorldSpace' Meaning 'Center on Worldspace'. X coordinate of the cell you want to be in, Y coordinate of that cell. Then the worldspace name. So if I did 'Cow 35 -20 Tamriel' it would put me somewhere in The Rift. So just look in the geck at the exterior cell, then you have your X and Y.

Testing with savegame is fine, as long as you didnt save WITH your mod active. That makes a dirty save. Simply using a save does not.

For example. Let's say you have a save from just playing Skyrim, and not testing. If, in that save, your mod wasn't active, you can use that save to test.

yes the save game im using is straight from a brand new save from no mods active and clicking new game. i havent even done the discussion in riverwood.

in any case, coc or cow still doesnt work at main menu. pressing new game, trying to console in an interior or worldspace, turns the game unresponsive...

another note too.... i been using wrye bash to convert to esm. when it does it deletes all the landscape edits, removals and deletions or alterations i do to the game. instead it only keeps what i have added IE static emplacements creating new reference ID's.

But when i move my mod to my desktop and simply rename the extension to esm and try it out in game, i still get the crash even with a master file.... so i am wondering if this has to do with some type of landscape edit....

here is something interesting... i went in and enabled logging and under the log file this is what i am getting:

[03/19/2012 - 05:44:04AM] Papyrus log opened (PC)
[03/19/2012 - 05:44:04AM] Update budget: 1.200000ms (Extra tasklet budget: 1.200000ms, Load screen budget: 500.000000ms)
[03/19/2012 - 05:44:04AM] Memory page: 128 (min) 512 (max) -1294967296 (max total)
[03/19/2012 - 05:44:19AM] error: Property LinkedActivator on script MGR02PillarScript attached to (1902A885) cannot be bound because (19001EC8) is not the right type
[03/19/2012 - 05:44:19AM] error: Property LinkedActivator on script MGR02PillarScript attached to (1902A88D) cannot be bound because (19001EC8) is not the right type
[03/19/2012 - 05:44:19AM] error: Property LinkedActivator on script MGR02PillarScript attached to (190246B1) cannot be bound because (190246B2) is not the right type
[03/19/2012 - 05:44:20AM] error: Property LinkedActivator on script MGR02PillarScript attached to (19024476) cannot be bound because (19024475) is not the right type
[03/19/2012 - 05:44:26AM] VM is freezing...
[03/19/2012 - 05:44:26AM] VM is frozen
[03/19/2012 - 05:44:26AM] Reverting game...


this is a fresh log started before entering the game and opened right after the crash happened. granted i think it only logs scripting activity. but the simple fact these errors arent showing up in the creation kit bugs me......

I went into the creation kit and deleted the pillars i put in that had this script and then i get this in the log after it crashes again:

[03/19/2012 - 05:59:24AM] Papyrus log opened (PC)
[03/19/2012 - 05:59:24AM] Update budget: 1.200000ms (Extra tasklet budget: 1.200000ms, Load screen budget: 500.000000ms)
[03/19/2012 - 05:59:24AM] Memory page: 128 (min) 512 (max) -1294967296 (max total)
[03/19/2012 - 05:59:41AM] error: Property LinkedActivator on script MGR02PillarScript attached to (190246B1) cannot be bound because (190246B2) is not the right type
[03/19/2012 - 05:59:41AM] error: Property LinkedActivator on script MGR02PillarScript attached to (19024476) cannot be bound because (19024475) is not the right type
[03/19/2012 - 06:00:01AM] VM is freezing...
[03/19/2012 - 06:00:01AM] VM is frozen
[03/19/2012 - 06:00:02AM] Reverting game...

and there is only 2 other mage pillars i can think of and those are the ones at the college.....

i found out i lied and i did actually have two more mage pillars. i deleted those and now this is the log:

[03/19/2012 - 07:08:25AM] Papyrus log opened (PC)
[03/19/2012 - 07:08:25AM] Update budget: 1.200000ms (Extra tasklet budget: 1.200000ms, Load screen budget: 500.000000ms)
[03/19/2012 - 07:08:25AM] Memory page: 128 (min) 512 (max) -1294967296 (max total)
[03/19/2012 - 07:08:45AM] VM is freezing...
[03/19/2012 - 07:08:45AM] VM is frozen
[03/19/2012 - 07:08:45AM] Reverting game...


"VM is freezing" what the hell is VM? when i look it up everywhere its refered to as Virtual machine. But this is all i am getting from the logs which is telling me it only logs issues with scripts.

Bump! i still need help with this.