I was looking around and found the website for the Gamebryo engine used in FNV and FO3.

What I didn't know is that there is an upgraded version of the engine called Gamebryo Lightspeed.

http://www.emergent.net/en/Gamebryo-LightSpeed/

*Rapid iteration—change the art, entities, levels, and behaviors and see the effect in your game without recompiling or restarting. This minimizes the need for game restarts and reduces development delays.
*Rapid prototyping and production—quickly move game content into a playable form, enabling you to evaluate technology and gameplay mechanics and assess the look and feel of levels and assets, and build on that work throughout the production cycle.

So I just had to ask, why Bethesda couldn't you at least use the upgraded version instead of using the old crappy version without prototyping?!. With prototyping, Fallout New Vegas might have been more than a technical disaster and more playable.

Maybe then Fallout New Vegas could have been bigger, better and less buggy.

That old excuse of "We didn't experience it during our testing" does not work anymore for QA and bug testing.

Use the right damn engine and you would have a game that is worthy to be called Fallout.

Doesn't that annoy anyone else?, the fact that there was a better alternative, and it never got used. Even when it was based on the original framework from the Gamebryo engine.

Game developers need Programming consultants to help them choose the engine that will make their game awesome, because they keep using the same engine from 2 years ago that svcked then and svcks now.

I like game developers who actually change their engines between titles. Stop using Gamebryo, because it's old and it svcks.

And there's no point in trying to bring something crap up to a mediocre level.

Maybe they're using it for TESV.

They didn't use it for New Vegas because they didn't have time and resources for that. A LOT of stuff was built on top of Gamebryo to end up with Oblivion. After that they modified that engine to make the Fallout 3 engine. That was a lot of work. When they brought on Obsidian to make New Vegas they weren't in a position to do another 4-year development cycle for it...they're probably working on TESV. So, they gave Obsidian their dev tools, assigned some of their own staff to help out and manage QA, and said, "here's this...be done before the holiday season in 2010...go." There's no way they had time to overhaul the engine based on the new version of Gamebryo. They'll probably do something like that for TESV and Fallout 4, though.

To add to Softnerd's post, Gamebryo is specifically designed to be augmented and changed by the developer using it. It's primarily a graphics engine, the other aspects are rudimentary or nonexistant, so developers can easily mold it to fit their needs. This is great for Bethesda since it allows them to create an engine that supports huge open-ended worlds with lots of NPCs and clutter, requirements most engines don't need to meet. With a fully developed engine Bethesda would need to strip out more components in order to rebuild it to their specifications which is time-consuming and easily introduces problems.

Well maybe they should of picked a new engine, delayed the game for longer.

I wasn't talking about an overhaul, but when the exact same bugs from Fallout 3 are present, doesn't it make sense to use the new features to troubleshoot old problems?.

Bethesda keeps digging a hole, but ends up with less stuff to put into that big giant hole. It's ridiculous.

Fallout New Vegas is practically the same as Fallout 3, yet performs worse.

That shows me that the engine is failing, and maybe Bethesda should spend less time creating such big worlds and pay more attention to fine detail.

It's a million of those fine details in Fallout New Vegas that keep coming up to remind you of what could have been if Bethesda didn't spend so bloody long making cluttered worlds and more time fine tuning.

Guns that don't fire, freezing, glitches, bugs, etc.

If they used the new version, this might not have happened as much is what I was saying, because they could of seen the prototype with the bug right there.

Bugs don't usually just appear out of nowhere. They are coded into it, and it's the developer's responsibility to make sure that the same bugs from previous titles are ironed out.

This is 2010, and we are supposed to be almost at the right point for console games to get really good, but Bethesda seems content to make a big world full of clutter.

Maybe a smaller world and more focus on one particular element is what Bethesda need to do.

Bigger is not always better. Bethesda's games are always going to be riddled with these problems because they insist on making huge open worlds. I'm waiting to see what Brink, Rage and Hunted are like, because they are not actually huge open worlds and focus on more than just stats.

Not saying that huge open worlds are crap, just that Bethesda has had more than enough chance to try and innovate it, but it's just the same spread-too-thin kind of game that becomes annoying.

When was it finished? Probably during the development of FNV, they can't change the engine mid-development.

It could be possible, but it's based on the Gamebryo engine, so I thought that it might be easier to implement new features rather than try to build a new engine from scratch.

The next Fallout title is being made by Interplay, so that's all I care about really.

Just annoying is all.

Oh really? Link?

He probably saw some stuff from Fallout Online, which is NOT in development as far as we know.

Exactly right.

Hi!

I'm sort of "computer stupid".

You guys are talking about these engines and all ... but I'm a bit lost when it comes to Gamebryo and Havok.
I get that Zendi is the money while Beth is the pusher and Obsidian is the chemist ... but what the hell does the "engine" have to do with anything?
I get that a game "engine" makes all of the flickering lights and shiny armour so awesome! I get that. But, what is this stuff between Gamebryo and Havock and Beth?

Before you all start jumping all over me, I am JUST a gamer ... what I know about how games are made and/or how games are put on the market, you can put on the heat of a pin.

I'm not "smackiing" anyone or "dissing" anyone or whatever!
I just would like some info.

Also, just saying, I am someone who HAS LITTLE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW COMPUTERS WORK!!!!
All this cybergeek [censored] about "ini" and stuff is just lost on little minds like mine.

So, as a PS3 owner ... one who's recently bought a 160GB Slim and been very active in these forums ... what can an understanding of game mechanics offer, if anything?

Just wondering.

I think Duke Nukem Forever was proof that changing game engines mid-development to get the latest features is a marvellous idea that always produces top-notch results.

The game itself is a combination of different engines working together to produce the world that you get to see.

Gamebryo is the graphics engine, controlling lots of different objects, characters, armour, facial features, weapons, items, etc.

Havok is the physics, explosions, ragdoll, gun damage, etc.

Since Gamebryo is an old engine, the same used in Fallout 3 in 2008, makes it clear that the graphics have reached their limit for this engine.

The engine has been slightly improved to accomodate new textures and models and lighting, but the bugs still remain from back when they made Fallout 3.

Knowing game mechanics helps troubleshooting I guess, so when a bug is apparent, you know it's a bug and that it's not meant to do that.

Aww that's not fair . Interplay made Fallout a household name, and now they can't even make their game anymore?.

my god i hope they are not using Gamebyro anything for TESV.


does this new version still have loading from inside to outside?

My understanding is bethesda is likely using the rage engine for future products.

As for why not lightspeed.. because what they have is more then good enough for fallout new vegas and future products arnt going to use gamebryo at all as they just went bankrupt and better engines are already in the hands of bethesda and more importantly its parrent company.

Yep.

http://www.gamingbusinessreview.com/emergentsellsassets.htm

The company that makes Gamebryo is apparently going under.

Wow...

This is huge, thanks for sharing Softnerd.

Perhaps Gamebroyo isn't even involved with TESV this time... In reading through the page at depth I began to wonder if LightSpeed really IS the technology that Bethesda is using. This passage near the bottom struck me in particular; "LightSpeed is built on top of Gamebryo, the multiplatform engine and foundational technology with more than 350 game productions worldwide across every genre. LightSpeed adds a game framework, scripting system, tools, and extensible infrastructure.

LightSpeed provides a pipeline and runtime solution that allows programmers, artists, and designers to quickly stand up content; then rapidly and continuously iterate on game design, level design, gameplay mechanics, core logic, and game assets; transition to full production; and ship. "

Doesn't Bethesda already Have the scripting engine, framework, tools, etc? This sounds to me like Lightspeed was actually trying to "catch-up" to what Bethesda has already done with the base Gamebroyo engine, as TESIV/Fo3/FNV uses SpeedTree technology and alot of their own code to augment Gamebroyo. By itself Gamebroyo didn't have all of that, so I'm starting to wonder if it actually makes any sense that Bethesda would Need this new environment - as it's still Gamebroyo at the root.

The numbers say it all - Opex killed em. They were taking in good cash, but putting out even more cash but their outgoing opex increased right along with the profits and always kept them in the negative. Smells to me like an inefficient finance department or bad decision making on big purchases.

What a mess, I hate seeing this happen to gaming companies! :thumbsdown:

*snip*

Moderator: Not for discussion on these forums.

Thing to remember is that the entire premise of FO:NV was "let's see what Obsidian can do with the Fallout 3 Engine & Resources, so we can get an interim game out quickly." So adding a new engine and/or delaying it longer would defeat the entire purpose of the project.


(as an aside, I also think the graphics are fine. But, hey. /shrug)

I remember reading a Bethesda statement saying that they won't be using the rage engine but something they have had in development....I will try to find it and post a link


bigcrazewolf

I had heard Bethesda bought id, so maybe they will use the Tech 5 engine?

Tech5 is the Rage engine.

I'd suspect that the next ES is probably too far along to switch. Carmack's probably not even done with the Tech5 engine yet anyway.

I got ya, the game Rage, I though people were referring to the RAGE engine used in GTA! I think your right though, Tech 5 isn't 100% yet from what I have read.

That Interplay is long gone. It died when they shut down Black Isle.