Why? If I took a car with a stick shift out into a parking lot (I don't know how to drive a manual), odds are after two days of practice with no training I'd figure it out and know how to roughly drive a stick. Of course, I'd have done some serious damage to the engine and wheels, I'm betting, but I doubt specialized training would be required. I don't see how this can be too different and still have people in power armor able to move with any kind of fluidity necessary for battle.

The pack mule was just for reference
~but I don't see your point? Fallout is set in 2077, and FO:NV is set two centuries later.

No need really. Consider what it does and why... It carries, and the operator does not feel the weight. This means a 90Lbs. person that can't do a pull-up, can walk cross country with 200lbs of gear. In this case adding is pointless; but in other cases... Consider if it were based on a gearbox... The person inside can't force a gearbox without damage, and (even if possible) setting the gear to some kind of 'Neutral' would remove the armor's strength completely; if it were hydraulics and not gears... well you can't force those without damage either.

**Also consider that this machine is computer controlled and likely won't lift beyond a safe weight.

***Also (again)... if the design incrementally pushed the joint forward, but allowed the wearer to push it farther if they could... it would not be very safe at all, and might not have any force (or control) over the joint suddenly moving in the opposite direction.

This is a bit different. One can learn Stick-shift, but it might be an expensive lesson requiring a trip to the garage and a mechanics fee.

Operator training for PA, [assumed] would involve the obvious and the non-intuitive details of its use, (perhaps including the default password if any, and how to adjust it to better "suit" the wearer). It could be similar to a kid skilled in the tricycle, trying to learn the ten (or 21) speed.

I posted a video a few back, that showed a complete novice wearing a prototype suit. He could move it, and probably lift a heavy load with it, but only because it was already running and setup for him to use.

Not saying they can't do it, they clearly have bipedal robots, securitrons for instance, but it's got to be something specifically designed to walk by itself. When NV is set doesn't really matter though since power armor was designed pre-war.



He's not forcing anything, he's not pushing against the motors, since the motors pick up his motion and move with him. The only way he might damage something is if he's moving to fast for the motors to compensate, which doesn't seem to be the case in power armor since they are pretty dexterous.

If you've got a hydraulic motor that can't quite move something, then you push on it to help out the hydraulics, how are you damaging it?

If it's powered, it doesn't have weight, which means it is not, at the very least, going to slow you down at all.

That's the point I was trying to make.

I like how they performed in the originals. Complete (IIRC) support for it's weight and extreme protection for most forms of "normal" damage. Only the hi tech (or specialized ammo)weaponry gave you a fighting chance against it. It was extremely rare only the BoS and Enclave had it. It would be pretty much impossible for non specially trained and outfitted people to repair and maintain.

Securitrons are certainly easier than anything with two feet (as they have none, non-bipedal), but the armor must handle it's own weight, and it can do this better than a person inside it.


You never force hydraulics, and (I'm guessing) NEVER force computer controlled hydraulics.

I understand what you are saying about 'lightening the load', but that would only work from the outside... the wearer is http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9242/exoli4.swf.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Sentry_Bot_%28Fallout_2%29

What about those monsters, from FO 2 Bipedal.

The Remnant Tesla Armour is already pretty bad-ass. I would've mind becoming overpowered like the Big daddy's from Bioshock tho..

Sorry I meant protectrons.



You're not forcing it, you're acting with it.

And you can still help it while inside the suit, since you can still apply leverage against the ground. In a suit that looks like the flash you posted you would be right, but fallout power armor is form fitting (at least in fallout 3/NV, 1 and 2 it's unknown). Even if it was more like the flash video, the only place you absolutely couldn't apply your own strength http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hROzz6yD_a8#t=2m58s .

Fallout 1 (2161): Power Armor's first appearance...it was the all-mighty armor that if you saw and it was shooting at you, you ran the other direction. You recognized it, you wanted it, you'd die for it.

Fallout 2 (2242): Power Armor returns just as good, even better than before. You looked at the NPC with it and envied him. You wanted it with all your heart for your character. It. Was. Miraculous.

Fallout 3 (2277): Power Armor returns...as a suit of armor that is basically scrap-can armor compared to the other games. Combat Armor and Power Armor are about equal once you get past all the perks and penalties of Power Armor.

Fallout: New Vegas (2280): Power Armor is back yet again, not as horrible as Fallout 3's, but not as good as the originals either. Power Armor is still not even comparable to Fallout 1 and Fallout 2's, but it's better than Fallout 3's.

In lore, it is the elite of the elite of the elite, in the game it should be. If you don't like it, don't use it.

Imagine that you were in a form fitting hard plastic shell (with no joints, hinges, or flexible parts). That is what it would be like inside a FO 1 or 2 PA suit if it was locked up.
(in fact, this was even shown in FO2 ~as a joke.)

The T-51b is in all 4 FO titles. as being the same item. (differences in FO3 are artifact of engine limitation.)

Now imagine that this hard plastic shell would reform itself if you pressed against it with your arm. It would move so long as it could move; but it is the only thing moving... Its carrying you.

Pressing up on the inside is pressing up on sensitive equipment (IE. the sensors). Your personal leverage wouldn't be that great, and the suit would not benefit from squirming around inside it.
PA training would primarily be hammering home the idea that you let the suit do the work.

In FO3 PA is on par with CA because all Talon company (and there is lots of them) wear is CA and RRA is ridiculously good, and the weight problem with T-45b. But later Hellfire from add-on did offer some competition.

T-45b is still not much better compare to Advanced CA, or Mk-II. Then you have T-51d (non-BoS) and Remnant, which is more or less on level with FO3 Hellfire.

I remember getting the power armor early in FO:2 through some use of speech, and it was god mode up until I tried to take on the enclave at the end.

As it should be. (and as it would be were it real). Navarro is a mid to late game location anyway.

Yes power armor should be better, but the drawbacks for using it should be a lot bigger. For one all power armor should be faction armor.
Think about it, if an NCR soldier saw someone in T-51b power armor at a distance, the first thought should be ”That is a BOS Paladin!” and the second should be ”Better call for back up”.
The same can be said for all other power armors, it would limit the usefulness of power armor quite a bit. Tenn make the repair cost astronomical and make it so only a few places could repaired it (like only a BOS or Enclave would have the necessary equipment and spare parts).

As for its abilities, it should be considered weightless when worn, but I think it should increase the Action Points cost of all actions as well (and slow down the real time shooting and reloading speed).

It is all about balance. And if the developers are creative they can make it so that while most builds and paths throe the game would eventual get there hands on a set of power armor, actually using it would only be optimal to a few of the possible build/path combinations.

Yes. In FO1 and 2 it made you look huge when worn and made you feel like a walking Abrahms MBT. In FO3/NV, it eats up 50 lbs. of carry weight, looks like it's made of sheet metal, and barely gives any combat bonuses with maybe extra rad resistance.

Engine limitation is possible, but again we don't know exactly how it's supposed to function.

As far as I remember, in FO2 that was just a tin man joke.

I don't understand what you mean by "squirming". You have full range of motion and it's form fitting, if you squirm the suit will squirm with you, your leverage is as good as anyone else's. The "hard plastic shell" reforms when you move, so imagine you're lifting something that the hard plastic shell can't quite lift, so you add your own strength to it.

Explain to me exactly why 1) the suit is going to stop you from doing this and 2) you will damage something in the suit. The sensors would only be damaged if they were delicately made, but this is a piece of rugged military hardware designed to last 100 years (and has actually lasted twice that long).

NV took a step in the right direction when it came to adding Damage Threshold, but I think that, while wearing Power Armor, one should be completely immune to standard ammunition of most types (barring armor piercing or sniper rounds).

Should it? If the tiny, miniaturized hydraulics used to keep the suit from being the size of a Vertibird aren't powerful enough, what feeds them power doesn't really matter much- hook them to the reactor from a current-day aircraft carrier, hook them to the power source for the second Death Star- they can still only absorb and transfer so much energy, and the rest either gets regulated out to save them or they blow sky-high. :shrug:

My thoughts, FWIW:

- It should have a DT of 30-40 depending on model
- It should support its own weight 100% when worn
- It should come with a STR bonus...at least some forms should, anyway
- It should come with an AGL penalty that scales with STR bonus and suit weight
- It should come with a large Sneak penalty
- Power helmets should come with a penalty to Speech checks (facial expression and eye contact play a large role in human speech)
- It should be affected by EMP and Pulse weapons (slow + AGL penalty or paralysis effect)
- It should be wearable with doubled penalties with no PA training

Beyond even "large." Sneaking in a suit of Power Armor should be all but completely impossible.

Depends on what you're intending speech to do. Only if you're trying to inspire and convey empathy is facial expression and eye contact particularly important. Scaring the crap out of people? Actually easier to do if they can't read you.

I don't really see where a hit to Agility would come into play. After all it's meant to move with you and not hamper you. It's give that since you are wearing big heavy gloves that fine motor skills would be effected so lock picking and hacking would be hit significantly. The hit to Sneak is a given. I don't see the hit to speech, unless your get at people don't like to listen to a vox voice or don't like looking at a helmet.

So I don't see how you can justify the Agility hit unless you think the guy inside really has to pull on the inside of the armor to get it to move. Other wise it would eb moving at the same speed as the user inside. For instance in the originals you character could sprint with out any problems. Depending on how much more str the suit gave you over what it needed to support it self it would in fact be moving faster then your normal speed.

That's true. If the RPG system could tell the difference between persuasion and intimidation it would be cool to get a penalty to persuasion and a bonus to intimidation.

short answer - if power armour was so damn good it would nullify the point of every other armour in the game - you'd NEVER want to use anything else. as it stands, there is a rhyme and reason to use light/med/or heavy armour. this is the way it should be.