I've already posted a topic on the no script checker and fortunately there is a fix: http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36290
There was the problem of no spell checker but there is a fix for that: Copy the "lex" folder from Fallout 3 into Fallout New Vegas.

However, there are other problems:

The havok simulation doesn't work!
Secondly, on the "Aggression" drop-down menu, "Unagressive" should be "Non-aggressive" and "Leveled Items" should be "Levelled Items" - apparently Bethesda can't spell!

You missed "lighting needs a viewport refresh (F5) to recalculate" and "Audio Diabled" in the reference properties, as long as we're counting.

Honestly going through the GECK kind of makes you realize just how sloppily put-together the game is in many places.

I could think of about a dozen places where the GECK and the game both could have been designed much more elegantly.

I suppose quick and dirty does it sometimes.

While I'm not happy with the GECK, you do have to understand that:
1) It was first put together (I believe) for Morrowind(or earlier?). In other words, it's old. Hence things like absolutely positioned UI elements, general instability, etc.
2) It's dev software, it doesn't have to be pretty or flexible, it just has to do what the devs need, and if they need a specific feature to do something it gets added.
3) We don't have access to ALL of the tools they do. They're certainly not using Nifskope to get models and such in game. (They would have an official exporter from the engine maker that they can't distribute)

But yeah, it's all due for a rewrite. I'm optimistic that that's why they had Obsidian do New Vegas.

Actually, leveled and levelled are both acceptable variants. There's plenty of other spelling errors too, but that's not one.

The GECK isn't a consumer product- it's an in-house development tool they make available to us. They don't write it up before they start work and then go, they work on it as they go along, and we've seen from various GECK updates in the past changes to one part of the editor may break other features of it- but for a dev team with access to all the past revisions of the editor having to use v0.75 to do havok sim for your cells isn't an insurmountable problem. It's certainly less of an issue for them than the extra several months dev time that writing up a fully-functional GECK beforehand would be.

the geck is way too sloppy to be what the devs used to make the game, its more like something that was slapped together and edited in a rush to get an editor out... the program is way to unstable, glitchy and buggy to be remotely near what a "professional" company would use as dev software !

You have absolutely no idea quite how awful the real world is, do you?

...also you're not very good at this whole 'thinking' business either, as why would they slap together an editor at the last minute to give to us when they don't have to? The reason we get the GECK/Construction Set is because it's minimal extra work for them- just taking their latest internal revision of the editor, crudely hacking out any bits referring to third party code and features they don't have a license to distribute to us (e.g. lipsynch), and throwing it out the door.

Yeah, I've done a few professional level design projects myself. If anything, their version may be more buggy than the one we're using.

Yet its been around almost 3 years now... and, thats just the GECK, the CS has been around for like 7. I dont think they quickly slapped it together... and it is what they used to make the game. Sure it has some issues, but most of them have a simple workaround and its still very usable if your have some smarts and take the time to learn it.

Internally-developed dev software that's not intended for commercial release is notoriously buggy/awkward to use/generally not at all what you'd expect from commercially released software intended for professional developers (as opposed to intended as an entertainment product, which are notoriously buggy but not usually as awkward to use or hacked together).

TheTalkieToaste,

I think I love you, your comments are always like a straight razor to the jugular vain! You put it out there straight and, proper, without sugar coating it. Your spot on and, many people don't understand the issues in the real world. They expect a construction set with the quality of a shiny new copy of Photoshop, not a free program but, a $500.00 purchase. Yes there are glitches, some bugs but, nothing we can't work around.

I'm personally annoyed about some of the issues but, instead of whining about them I'm looking for workarounds!

Keep fighting the good fight!

cev

As a wise man once said,

Usually I find that folks who complain the most about the GECK have not yet taken the time to really understand the tool Or don't have the patience to try.

The honest truth is that the GECK _is_ lacking in one type of code - User Error Checking. This usually adds a huge amount of bloat to a program that has to deal with any insane inputs a user might try to make. Often this requires alot of extra time too, as QA testers and early adopters will run into situations where they can crash or fubar their work, and that has to be ticketed and then user error checking code added to prevent the user from doing it. I have seen programs at my work that are almost 40% user error checking (what I affectionately call, "mop code"), and its That kind of program that people pay for and expect to work right (irregardless of how they mis-use or abuse the program).

The GECK has very little of this because they don't need it, there would be no point in spending all of the time and money to implement the kind of user error checking that would be needed in a massive program like the GECK. It could take tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get the basics in, and where is the return for all that money spent? No one is buying the GECK and thus it makes no Direct revenue for the company. They don't need at work because the creators of the GECK are right there to train and advise users on any problems they may have - thus alleviating the need to spend hundreds or thousands of man hours on mop code. I for one don't blame them one bit - they made a tool for a purpose, and when done with it have given that tool freely to the modding community to use pretty much as we see fit.

I am very grateful to have the GECK, and having now used it almost two years I find that I almost never crash it unless I do something wrong. The NV-GECK is still new and has some issues (like duplicating world spaces = boomage), but patches are very likely to come in time and we'll end up with a GECK like the Fo3 GECK - which I find stable, fun and useful. Anyone expecting a super user-friendly GECK with tons of mop code are going to be sorely disapointed. The rest of us will keep trying until we get it right.

Since I'm a modder myself, I'm not included in this group of yours. :user:

Well, I posted this with the hope of being given workarounds...

Some user error checking (such as script error messages) are kindof included in the GECK but you need a small .dll file and an injector to fix them, and that was provided within a few days of the game's release. It's also ridiculously important for developers, either internal or external. Most of the other problems with the GECK have nothing to do with User Error Checking, such as the lack of the dictionary database being included in the download even though they've already got one from F3, the way the render window doesn't always display all of the objects it should, and the lack of a havok sim or lipsynching software. The user error checking stuff is extremely minor compared to those complaints.

Indeed!

For stuff like the Havok bug, we have to hope that they will patch the GECK and/or give us a clue on how to resolve these issues.

Usually its something simple - like the Room Bounds bug, which at first everyone (including me) thought that content wasn't rendering right in cells we transferred from Fo3 to FNV. Only later was it revealed that Room Bounds were at the root, and simply moving them up or down (out of the way) fixes the display problem. There may yet be work-arounds to the Havok issue, I hope so too!

I think this tool is by and large spectacular. I can totally see people using this as their main workplace tool, day in and day out (and that includes geckscript language as it is (whatever it is)).

But of course I can think of 2 improvements.

- - allow mouselook to be inverted in the render window.

- - fix the duplicable crash that happens if you are doing portals and don't quite get it right. Easy to duplicate, and makes placing portals scary.

I had said in different post elsewhere - - I think that our current NV geck release musta been put out as being the best of what they had available for us at the time. They are busy peeps right now. The alternative would have been doing what they did with FO3's geck which was waiting until some time after the game release, and holy [censored] did that svck for us.

It seems likely that they will send us another GECK later, one which can show script errors on its own and they'll remember to put the lexicon file into the zipfile.

The missing lipsync generation functionality, that one I donno about. If I had to guess I'd say some licensing issue had cropped up or, they themselves do it differently now? Or maybe they do it the same way and it is equally svckage all around. Can only guess.

I managed to live without the script syntax checker for a while, it was only a bit ago that someone made a version which worked on XP. Now, the checker really feels like a luxury instead of a necessary tool. kinnda interesting how that worked out.

Yeah I recall your other post, was spot on in point. If I had to GECKulate further, I would suspect that they were not allowed to release further lipsync updates - thank GOD the TES version still works. We won't get that unique bent expression that the King has (which was awesome btw), but at least we can have voice acting

I agree with you, given enough time and once all the major bug fixes are out, I think we will get at least 1 GECK patch to fix the major bits that need attention.

I am thankful we have been given the GECK, yes it may have a couple issues, but I can happily live with them considering not having the GECK would be horrible. I most likely wouldn't be playing TES4, FO3, or NV for years/years to come, as for the havok issue I am being optimistic and thinking that there will be a fix for the GECK as well as the game.....they did mention a havok fix in the works for the game in the patch update release.

So yes people will complain but I say ponder the alternative.....no GECK.....I know how that makes me feel :sadvaultboy:


bigcrazewolf

Many devs use worse tools that require way more work than a mod community can handle. Sure, the GECK is buggy as hell, but it's also older than a lot of the posters here. All I know is FO4 and TES:V better be running on idTech 5 when they arrive, or I'm gonna go postal.

I would prepare to go postal then, as Bethesda has already clearly stated several times that they are working on a completely new engine that lends itself better to large, open world RPGs. The definitely impression left behind is that they learned some cool stuff from IdTech5, but that they went their own way for the new game (and I am very glad of it too).

http://pc.ign.com/articles/111/1112464p1.html, mid-way down the page:



Miax

At least if they're making their own engine, we can HOPE it means we actually get a proper official model exporter or two... Lipsynch may still not happen though.

With the age of the GameBryo engine, and the time it's taking them to announce the next Elder Scrolls, I would hope that they are using a different engine.

I just hope the mod tools are similar to the GECK, because the it is by far my favorite modding tool.