This game is crying for an unarmed perk tree! I can honestly understand if it was left out for some reason, because there if far too much evidence that shows it was planned at one time to be implemented at some point in development. I know there is DLC coming our way soon in the next couple months (maybe...?); this addition would make this Ps3 gamer more than happy choke slamming the worst of them two frames at a time.

I agree, i hated the fact that unarmed wasn't in this game.

Eh, I always thought it was kind of pointless, even if you were playing a monk or something. I wouldn't complain if it was included, but I also wouldnt complain if it never returned to the series.

In previous titles the lack of variety hurt un-armed combat, but I think the perk system could be used to enhance it.

Because punching a man wearing plate mail is insane? That said, I'd like to see a dodge factor for people wearing lighter or less armour, and not just a single perk on one tree. But H2H is taking lack of realism a step too far.

I actually think Hand-to-hand belongs in the One-handed tree, specifically somewhere in the branch of dual wielding, just because of it's behavior. Maybe after Dual Flurry, but before Dual Savagery.


I don't necessarily believe this. A person in heavy plate armor can have his neck broken just the same. Because of that, I see a Hand-to-hand perk(s) being something like this.

(One Handed) Pugilist: Adds 4 Unarmed Damage per rank (5 ranks)

Martial Artist: Doubles Critical Damage for Hand-to-hand attacks, including Sneak Attacks. (Putting H2H silent kills just under Dagger for bonus multiplier, complete with unique assassinations)

Not really, as the armour greatly reduces the possible articulation of the neck, and usually rises high enough to protect it. Hitting them very hard on the right spot with a ****-off big mace or sword might do it, but a rabbit chop (say) won't. The usual sort of throws of varius martial arts will almost certainly fail as well: again the articulation issue, combined with the extra 40kg+ in weight. About the only thing that in RL can stand up to a man in plate is another man in plate, or a lot of archers a long way back. Even people wearing lighter armour need to knock the knight over or down to get in any serious damage. As i said, I can accept a certain degree of fantasy, but not an unarmed monk killing a man in full plate. Eight monks, maybe.

You grossly overestimate the efficacy of Plated armor. To be perfectly honest, once you push a plated soldier off balance and get him on the ground, he's effectively dead, which is a lot easier than you'd think.

And I think you underestimate how easy plate is to work in, if you are brought up almost from birth wearing the stuff. The myth of people having to be winched into their horse is that - a myth. The only time it applied was with late era (16th Century) jousting armour, which was not only VERY thick, but missing much of the usual articulation (so there were fewer weak spots for a lance to go through). There are reliable reports of people swimming across rivers wearing the full plate. And I mean swim, not wade. One Frenchman on a siege climbed to the top of a siege ladder in full plate by hanging from the underside of the ladder. The weight is evenly distributed, so the wearer can roll and get up fairly easily. Don't confuse battles like Agincourt or Crecy where the ground was very soft.

Dragons and talking dogs. That's all I have to say.

Most people don't realize that even "full plate armor" usually wasn't. The joints and gussets usually had chain or leather to allow easy movement and rotation.

I think there should be perks that raise the speed of the left hand and the power of the right hand. There's no reason why a left hand world be slower... If you're standing right it should be closer to the enemy!

And why is the left hand a hook anyway!? It should be a fast jab that sets up the heavy right.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm#weight_b

There you go guys. Met museum busting heavy armor myths.

Technically, Barbas is a Daedra, and Dragons really aren't that Far Fetched. Most ancient Dragon Stories of Earth originate from the remains (Fossils) of the creatures we now call Dinosaurs. I don't know if you've ever seen a Dinosaur fossil before, but they look a lot like a Dragon to me.


Oh, I know how people have a misconception that plate armor is like wearing a lead brick. The modern United States Marine carries about the same weight in gear on his back, as the average suit of plate armor weighed. The Marine is typicially burdened even more, because the weight is focused.

But it's still very possible to have your neck broken in plate. Specifically if you look at all of Skyrim's heavy armors, which don't offer any of the limitations to neck articulation that would stop it.

Not to mention, Hand to Hand fighting is still entirely possible in Skyrim. Argonians and Khajiits have very powerful Hand to Hand abilities, then there's the "Gloves of the Pugilist" enchantmet.

So really, your arguments are null and void, H2H exists in Skyrim, it's just poorly implemented.

You might like the smallish read: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1342368-lets-talk-about-monks/page__p__20286176__hl__monk__fromsearch__1#entry20286176

I really liked how you mentioned how a perk tree could go (left) towards a magical tree or (right) towards a physical tree.

Or maybe a left tree for the left hand and a right tree for the right hand, and each hand utilizes magic or stamina based on which side the hub shows it (magic on left, stamina on right). That would be amazing.

I don't know..armored dude versus martial artist...ok, maybe the martial artist wins. But against a Dragon? A bear? That's silly.

...

Not sure if you're trying to be witty.

yeah i mean it just doesnt make much sense... theres no reason to think hand to hand could beat any type of weapon/magic in a fight so why give it its own tree?

Do people like this not realize you can already punch a Dragon and a Bear to death in Skyrim?

I don't even like Hand-to-hand, but I think with a little work, they could have made it fit in Skyrim a little better. Hell, they went through so much effort to add a ton of new Hand-to-hand executions... People obviously like it enough.

Oh for gods sake stop trying to be so damn realistic about it. Who cares that unarmed in real life is useless against a guy in armor with a sword. In real life you also can't shout people across your yard or carry a household worth of items around in your pocket. These realism arguments are stupid when related to a fantasy game. People want unarmed in the game. It would have been fun for certain people to play that way. Who cares how realistic it is? I would have made an unarmed character if they had made a perk tree for it. The finishers are great so why not. Unfortunately there's only one perk for it which stinks.

Oh and killing a dragon with a sword is much more realistic, try killing a t-rex that can fly, and breath fire, with human intelligence with a sharp object... If they were real, I would feel naked with a 50 cal. rifle, Hand to hand is fun, like what a video game is supposed to be, besides, I'll give you a baseball bat against an unarmed, highly trained Israeli operative, and I wouldn't like your chances, Realism is subjective.

Bruce Lee, Jet Li and Jackie Chan seem to have no problem against swords and otherworldly beings.

Parries, Counters, Throws and paralyzing punches.

While I have never played an unarmed character in a TES game, I would certainly like the skill tobe in the game, both for those who like it and with the introduction of perks I think they could have made it very interesting.