I'm just about at level 16 and I'd really like to take the Hand Loader perk. However, I got to thinking. Can't we unlock the "recipes" for everything at the reloading bench eventually? I don't really want to take this perk if I get everything it offer from playing the game. Basically, is it worth it to take this perk?

it unlocks special hand load ammo types that are very good.

i didnt take it but its not a terrible perks, especially in hardcoe mode wear you dont want to spend all you food money on ammo

Hand Loader unlocks 6 recipes for ammo that are generally the best ammo in the game. They can't be unlocked any other way.

its a must have if you specialize in guns and want maximum dmg output.

If you are using large caliber guns it's pretty much a "must have" perk. You can press the hand loaded ammo in far greater quantities than you can buy AP/HP ammo from venders. Just buy regular ammo from those venders, break it down and re-press it into the better stuff with just abit more lead/powder needed. Once you get into using the Brush Gun and AMR the perk becomes even more vital. Brass for these two guns are very hard to come by it seems and you want to save every possible case for the ammo bench.

There is some exceptions to this. If you are using small caliber ammo like 5.56mm, 9mm and .22(!?) as your mainstays it's best to avoid the perk at this time. There is no suped-up ammo you can press for these guns.

The thing is unless you're using heavy weapons, eventually 5.56 and 9mm just won't be able to overcome the DR of your enemies. Even if you could survive long enough you could probably put 300, 400 rounds of 9mm into a deathclaw to moderately no effect. At some point you'll need to move to the big hitters like .44 magnum and others that do have special match-grade ammo from the perk.

i think that it is one of the better perk as you can get some stonger bullet types that can maximize your damage as opposed to normal bullets.

My bad. I forgot to mention 12/20 gauge shotguns in that list. A hunting Shotgun with beanbag rounds and slugs tears apart high DT enemies for example.

Fair point, shotguns can be brutal against tough enemies. I just find it uncomfortable to let a deathclaw get that close lol

It's a must have perk if Guns are your mainstay. I wish I had taken it much earlier than I did. I use nothing but the .308 JSP in This Machine and my sniper rifle. It tears things up. Perfect balance between AP and HP. I'm also building up ,40-75 hand loads so I can put my Ranger Sequoia and Brush Gun to work. It's hard to get .40-75 in anything but HP ammo so I actually waste that stuff just to get the casings so I can make SWC hand loads out of it. The easy to buy and find .308 breaks down to everything you need for .40-75s except the casings. Really, long story short, if you want to get maximum bang for your buck it is a very worthwhile perk.

It's awesome.

I picked it up the first chance I got to see whether it was worth it. It was.

Turning normal into better variants with no negatives is awesome: making .357 into more accurate, DT-reducing and higher damage rounds for my Cowboy Repeater, and ordinary .308 rounds into +50% dmg ones. And that's just to start.

I may be the only one who thinks the Hand Loader Perk isn't that good.

The first benefit of the perk is that it lets you recover hulls and cases more. I thought that would allow me to reuse my ammo, but I can't make new ones, because I don't recover the primers. Lead is abundant from scrap metal, hulls and cases are quite abundant as well. But primers, the last ingredient, are rare, and can only be obtained by breaking down ammo. I thought it defeats the purpose of crafting, making things out of raw material.
If I have to break down ammo, in order to make ammo, then what's the point? I rather sell the other ammo types for money, and use that money to buy the ammo that I want.

Probably the main reason to get this perk is for the recipes. As someone mentioned, you can make .308 bullets that do 50% more damage. But I never saw the use in such bullets.
If I need a lot of firepower to snipe an enemy, it usually means that enemy has high armor. For such enemies, I would rather use the AP bullet. I don't think the .308 bullets that do 50% more damage would be as useful.
Against an enemy that doesn't have armor, usually a normal bullet or a HP is enough.

Maybe if the Hand Loader Perk allowed me to recover primers, then I would find them really useful. But otherwise I don't find this perk as useful, and I would skip it in the currently hardcoe mode I'm playing.

Primers available from GunRunners, as is powder, sometimes from Mick&Ralphs, I also think I've bought some from Crimsom caravan

I have also encountered a few, but they cost a lot. But I could have mistaken a crate of primer for only one primer, so I thought if a primer costs more than a single ammo, again what's the point.

If I really did mistake a crate of primer for one, how many primers are in a crate?
And is it actually cheaper to make ammo from buying primers, than buying the actual ammo itself?

It's not useless because it increases the probability of recovering cases from your ammunition, which is extremely helpful with harder to find ammos like .45-70 gov't which is very rare.

You also get hand loaded ammo recipes which essentially do a lot more damage than the regular ammunition.

That perk + the recipe from the cowboy in North Vegas = One badass .44 Mysterious Magnum.

@Nubius, there are 25 primers in a crate, iirc. I tend to buy every crate available (mainly from Gun Runners) as I think it works out quite cheap. I still have to buy about 30-40% of my ammo though.

For anyone with hand loader perk, is there any recipe for .50 cal ammo (for my amr sniper)?

i think its a decent perk for anyone that uses .308 cal weapons. the .308 jsp rounds provide a 50% boost in damage over regular .308's. practically every .308 round you have can be turned into a jsp very easily, all you need is to have a little extra powder and lead i believe and your set, and you can get those from breaking down other calibers as well. I just break down every 5mm bullet i get and it provides me plenty of the extra material for making the 308 jsp.

though i do wish they added more to what you can craft at the reloading benches, 6 extra bullets hardly mean anything when i only make 1 of those 6. I dont use shotguns at all so those loads are useless

If you do the math you'd see that JSP rounds do more damage against highly armored opponents than AP does. Not massively more, but more, and they tear apart low armor opponents. Once you start making them that's all you need. .308 rounds are extremely common so if you buy the cheap variety and break them down for their primers you have the primers and powder to make both .308 JSPs and .45-70 hand loads. You also make a huge profit if you want to just sell that ammo. Not to mention boxes of primers and jars of powder are pretty easy to come by. The perk is very useful, particularly in hardcoe mode. Once you learn what converts into what you can make more awesome ammo than you can carry. Unless you're like me and make Cass carry it all The .308 JSP makes This Machine better than a Brush Gun in my opinion. You can get along just fine with that and a sniper rifle.

Yep. But you have to have 100 repair to make them. It makes a Match Load. 1.15 Damage and .65 spread.

Ok thanks for the info folks. I stand corrected.

The "box" thing really isn't intuitive. I always wondered how do I use the surplus ammo I just bought, only to realize I had to drop it or put it in a container, then take it again. Can't blame me for misunderstanding the box of primers.

Don't waste your time with surplus ammo. It deteriorates you weapons faster and makes jams more likely. You also can't break it down.

As I''m not using the large-bore weapons quite yet (still more exploring and wandering than the main quest, and I just haven't made it a point yet to go 'uber' for weapons...

I'm on Very Hard, using hardcoe mode.

I have over 10k 'cash'.. so REALLY not hurting for cash, or ammo should I choose. though I tend to focus on a modded Cowboy Repeater and the unique Plasma rifle. Along with either the Weathered 10mm (or the 'that gun' which I bought off a trader)... I have TONS of 9mm ammo. I just don't use it. so i cannibalize it to make .357 loads. I think I can use one other type to break down for remaking .357's. But you can easily support one particular ammo 'habit' by using up the others which break down for the similar parts

It svcks that the .44 SWC round requires 60 survival to unlock. I can understand 60 Guns... but 60 survival? Not 60 repair? What?????? And you need the hand loader perk to make it.

I had to hunt down all the Wasteland survival guides, pop a 20 skill book, some buffout, and some wastelander clothing to pull it off.

.44 SWC is good but not that good.



I'm ticked you can't make 12.7mm hand loads.