hardcoe Lovers : Fallout: New Vegas

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:39 am

I just wanted to say a BIG thank you for hardcoe mode.

It is sad that it has to be called hardcoe, but I guess that is in itself a critique of our lazy society. We want our games to practically win themselves.

Of point, anyway.
I for one am all in favor of toughening up the games these days... not simply by having impenetrable AI, but by implementing real world stress and constraints like hydration and weight.

Bravo on you Obsidian!

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:22 am

I just wanted to say a BIG thank you for hardcoe mode.

It is sad that it has to be called hardcoe, but I guess that is in itself a critique of our lazy society. We want our games to practically win themselves.

Of point, anyway.
I for one am all in favor of toughening up the games these days... not simply by having impenetrable AI, but by implementing real world stress and constraints like hydration and weight.

Bravo on you Obsidian!

I passed on the first. I'll definitely give it a go on the second.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:10 am

Playing on hardcoe / hard setting...

hardcoe is only nice for 2 reasons.

1) Stimpacks heal slowly... instant heal stimpacks in Fallout 3 was absurdly abusive and made the game a joke.

2) Somewhat more immersive since you need to manage hunger / thirst.

However, for the most part, hardcoe just means you'll have less inventory space (ammo weight) and be making more frequent trips to town to unload crap.... hardcoe doesn't really make the game any more difficult (other than having to plan how to use stimpacks).. it just makes it more... tedious.

That said, I won't be playing anything but hardcoe mode... feels a touch more... realistic.. I guess.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:46 pm

It does svck that it is called "hardcoe"
But I'm very glad Bethesda didn't make Obsidian just scrap those changes all together.
I think I'm just going to forget 3 existed, pretend New Vegas is the 3rd one, and that it only has one mode of play to it.
So, yes, thanks Obsidian for doing things a bit more right.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:01 pm

I finally feel like I am not a god in Fallout anymore.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:03 am

I finally feel like I am not a god in Fallout anymore.

I know, it is great. I am actually struggling right now. It is pretty damn fun. I am really happy i choose hardcoe on the first playthrough.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:40 am

hardcoe implements limitations that allow you to savor the game and not rush through and gulp down the entire thing in one sitting.

I like traveling into a town, it's night time and the prospect of eating, drinking and resting are of the highest priority. I feel that any of us forced into the same setting, after treking all day in the desert, attacking or avoiding every threat the wastes had to offer would quickly make those three our top priorities. Rumors, gossip and town troubles can wait until the break of day, right now it's time to recover.

The Saloon looks like a good enough spot, head on in and speak with the owner. Munch on some Iguana on a stick and kick back with a cold one. Pay the innkeep a few caps and you can have a mattress to get your 40 winks in and can singlehandedly resolve all of the town's problems in the morning.

A simple scenario that was once the staple of any RPG is being slowly phased out in the interest of providing the user non-stop action. Fallout 3 was one long, break neck paced 4-day weekend that was only interrupted by the occasional fast travel. Unless you were sleeping in between runs from Megaton to Rivet City, there wasn't much sleeping in that game. Sure you could rest for the bonus +10% to exp, but levels climbed so fast in that game, you wouldn't notice the bonus anyway.

I really like what hardcoe has to offer, and would even like to see a third statistic of hygiene added. Aside from the obvious Charisma penalties a racked up hygiene meter would confer, it would also be good to see that the prevalence of disease or malady comes more readily to the unwashed rather than the well groomed.

I would go so far as to complete the circle of Intake and Output by suggesting that the Courier be required to use the restroom periodically, but I don't think the addition would enhance gameplay much, if at all.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:02 pm

I played with realism mods in FO3, so hardcoe is far from difficult for me. However, it did trick me into tagging survival when I shouldn't have. What a worthless skill.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:52 am

hardcoe could have been improved in one way: incentive.

Now, we all know that the incentive to eat, drink & sleep is to NOT DIE in real life, but in a game it needs to be a little more immediate and fun. Keeping your Sleep/Food/Water/Rads under 50/100 for example should bestow some +benefit to give you a reason to keep "checking your buffs" and eating/drinking/sleeping accordingly. It would make it less tedious and give you more of a purpose.

The stimpack & limb changes are good though. The sustenance changes could of used some innovation.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:43 pm

I played with realism mods in FO3, so hardcoe is far from difficult for me. However, it did trick me into tagging survival when I shouldn't have. What a worthless skill.

Why is survival skill worthless ??

You know I still have my first playthrough before me

so I would like to know, if I really should stay away from this skill ?? - maybe it benefits you more on higher pts value? when you boost it to like 70 pts?

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:45 am

Well, food really isn't that hard to find by scavenging, and survival is pretty much all about crafting food. You can make some pretty neat stuff with survival though.

I mean, hoenstly, there are 1,000 ways to skin a cat, as the saying go's. You can play this game a lot of different ways. Survival might not be a skill for your master cookie cutter min/max character but who gives a damn.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:26 am

Well, food really isn't that hard to find by scavenging, and survival is pretty much all about crafting food. You can make some pretty neat stuff with survival though.

I mean, hoenstly, there are 1,000 ways to skin a cat, as the saying go's. You can play this game a lot of different ways. Survival might not be a skill for your master cookie cutter min/max character but who gives a damn.

noticed that also! im finding alot of food my self and so far i haven't found a combination of food items i can craft my self..maybe ill start new chair without survival since im not so far in

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:15 am

Still isn't hard enough.
I wanted FWE for new vegas.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:01 pm

Boring make it harder!

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:53 am

I just wanted to say a BIG thank you for hardcoe mode.

It is sad that it has to be called hardcoe, but I guess that is in itself a critique of our lazy society. We want our games to practically win themselves.

Of point, anyway.
I for one am all in favor of toughening up the games these days... not simply by having impenetrable AI, but by implementing real world stress and constraints like hydration and weight.

Bravo on you Obsidian!

I like the immersion it creates. Not to spoil anything, but if an NPC withheld water and was selling it for exorbitant prices in FO3, unless you were playing a goody-two-shoes character, you probably wouldn't give a damn. It didn't affect you. Now when a thug stands between you and water, you care. When an NPC thanks you by giving you a bottle of water, you care. It's suddenly a valuable gift in New Vegas on hardcoe Mode, where in FO3, you might well have chucked the bottle of water on the ground as soon as the adoring Megaton townperson gave it to you.

It is amazing how over the course of playing today I have picked up the habit of searching out a source of water first thing in each new settlement I come to. I brush off NPCs, avoid distraction, until, lifeline established with the location of well, pump, spring found or bottles sloshing in my pack from a merchant, I get down to business.

The meters are almost perfectly balanced. They go up just enough to keep the activities important to you, but never enough to be an annoyance. Sleep is the perfect counter-weight to food and water, as sometimes I find my character tired or sleepy, but growing thirsty, and with limited resupply at hand. Do you sleep, knowing you will wake up even more thirsty and hungry, or do you push through the drowsiness for a few more hours to secure supplies?

And how much I love the added importance of doctor's in hardcoe Mode cannot be overstated - crippled limbs now matter, and make combat more harrowing and exciting. Facing someone in combat with a crippled head blurring everything and making you go temporarily blind is quite the rush as you scrabble for cover, shaking your head along with your character and hoping for clarity to return from the fog before a bullet cures your migraine.

I can't see myself ever playing NV without hardcoe Mode on. It feels like how Fallout was always meant to be played.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:01 pm

If I wanted mundane - I have real life. Make me a GOD!!! I'll probably try hardcoe on 2nd round.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:32 am

*snip*

QFT

It's a feature that adds the survivial/immersion aspect that FO3 was missing to the fallout universe. If you avoid fast travel i imagine the effect would be even greater. Turn off your HUD, disable fast travel and work purely through your PIP boy ... congratulations, you now feel that much closer to actually being in the game.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:56 pm

I am so much more satisfied with this game now they have hardcoe mode. As well as the developers made it more difficult to purchase weapons like the Hunting Rifle which for me costs 3200 caps. I love these limitations that make this game not make you feel like a god.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:59 pm

I love hardcoe mode and don't expect I'll ever play "normal."

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:32 am

It keeps the game interesting on a whole other level, and you feel like a part of the world--sleeping at night, waking in the morning, drinking and eating the same foods as the other inhabitants of the Mojave. You are living as your character.

P.S. I've been playing for 3 hours, and I'm still in Goodsprings, living out of that empty, rusted out trailer. And loving it.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:02 am

Stimpacks.
100% Better.

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:20 pm

I went with hardcoe for my first playthrough and I'm lovin' it so far a couple hours into the game.

However, I still don't exactly understand the mechanics of sleepiness/thirst/hunger.

Sometimes when I go to sleep, my HP doesn't go up. I thought maybe it was due to my thirstiness level, but my thirst and hunger are pretty low and it's still happening from time to time.

Does hardcoe make it so that sleep doesn't heal that much of your HP?

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:13 am

I'm playing it on Hard and hardcoe Mode, the game is a lot of fun so far!

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:11 pm

if you got the collectors edition, i know mine came with a code for a "classic" pack, armored vault suit, wethered 10mm (Assuming its from 3) and a vault canteen, that comes in handy during hardcoe mode, i almost never have to worry about h2o.

^^ one big run on i know

» Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:22 pm

Everyone who have played Fallout 3 together with FWE (Fallout Wanderers Edition) is familiar with the hardcoe mode.

It seems pretty obvious that Obsidian copied the idea from several mods in FWE (since FWE is not a mod itself, but a great pack of immersion/realism mods). Eons before the launching of New Vegas I already asked myself why the devs didn't pay attention to the mod community, since there were quite a lot of terrific ideas that I thought should be included in a sequel... well, here is the answer.

Bottom line, even FO3 I only played in hardcoe mode. I tweaked FWE to be even more hardcoe (from its control panel), and, let us be fair, FWE was the real hardcoe (and reeeeally fun). New Vegas mode is "yeah"... it's alright, but it lacks tons of other aspects that were present in FWE. Take a look at the "overall goals" below to see what I am talking about (click on "spoiler: show").

Sadly, a mod like that takes quite a long time to be made, so I don't expect an NVWE (New Vegas Wanderers Edition) anytime soon... :sadvaultboy:

FWE url from FO3 Nexus: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2761.

Spoiler

------------------------
OVERALL GOALS
------------------------

* Richer character development + RPG experience where SPECIAL, skill, and Perk choices matter more
* Faster paced and more unforgiving combat for an enhanced FPS experience
* Greatly improved the "survival" aspect of the game, including injuries, loot rarity, and daily needs
* New equipment and a complete rebalance of all weapons, armor, and other gear
* Improvements to the diversity, character, and behavior of many actors, factions, and creatures
* Overall a more immersive game experience
* In-game "Control Panel" and optional modules allow you to configure FWE to your preferred playstyle
* Compatiblity support for other popular mods including MMM, WMK, EVE and Project Beauty

------------------------
CHARACTER
------------------------

* Built-in alternative start option
* Slower experience, leveling, and pacing choices (configurable)
* SPECIALS's made more important to your character's skills and abilities
* Adjusted carrying weight capacity (configurable)
* Major rebalance of existing perks and new FWE-specific perks
* Tagged skills are more important
* Reduced skill points overall, so characters can't be a master of everything (configurable)
* Skills matter more to your performance in most situations (configurable)
* Adjusted bobblehead bonuses and functionality (configurable)
* Additional lockpicking + hacking choices (bypassing terminals, explosive entries)
* Sneaking made more realistic and challenging (configurable)
* Improvement to the karma system
* Changed health formulas for the player for better balance (configurable)
* Improved barter settings for a more balanced economy (configurable)
* Skill books now provide unique perks instead of skill points

------------------------
COMBAT
------------------------

* Greatly increased the global damage multiplier for damage taken and dealt (configurable)
* Significantly lessened the effect of auto-aim
* Adjusted the weapon spread (accuracy formula) for better gameplay (configurable)
* Unarmed skill provides a "dodge" bonus when wearing lighter armors
* Implemented body-part location based damage specific to each NPC/creature type
* Reduced limb explosion + dismemberment rates
* VATS balancing, including increased player damage and adjusted hit %
* Optional VATS real-time and half-time modules
* Movement speed increased
* Backwards movement speed dependent on agility
* Integrated Bullet time feature that consumes AP's (configurable)
* Integrated Sprinting feature that uses AP's (configurable)
* Adjusted Action Point pool size and recharge rates (configurable))
* Built-in FPS-style grenade hotkey mod (configurable)
* More realistic falling damage (configurable)
* Greatly increased velocity and range of projectiles

------------------------
EQUIPMENT
------------------------

* Over 40 new weapons added from prior fallout games and to the gameworld
* Over a dozen new armors added, appropriate to the fallout setting
* Missing unique weapons + armor added to the wasteland
* Complete rebalance of all weapons, all weapons now have a viable purpose
* Complete rebalance of all explosives for greater stopping power and realism
* Explosions and super sledges now have a knockdown effect
* Complete rebalance of all armor for greater range of viable armor choices
* Power armor overhaul, making PA potentially more powerful but more difficult to acquire
* Power armor + recon armor helmets have night vision capabilities
* Weight of armor is reduced when equipped
* Adjusted weapon and armor wear rates (configurable)
* Weapons more likely to jam on reload or firing when in poor condition
* Greatly expanded the repair parts lists for fixing weapons + armor
* Added many new CRAFT'able items to the workbench
* Ammo is significantly more rare (configurable)
* Ammo now has weight so you can't carry mountains of it around (configurable)
* Rebalanced the value and weight of misc items
* Optional worn weapon's module makes good condition weapons much rarer
* New portable lab kits and infirmaries for sale
* New bedroll, water purifier, and portable grills for sale

------------------------
SURVIVAL
------------------------

* Over 40 new chems and drugs added to the gameworld in vendor and loot lists
* Significantly increased the negative effects of crippled limbs
* New healing system (Triage) for fixing crippled body parts (configurable)
* Stimpaks and other drugs are much more rare (configurable)
* Complete rebalance of all drug and chem effects. Chems how have weight.
* Stimpaks heal over time instead of instantly
* Morphine and certain other drugs allow you to temporarily ignore crippled effects.
* Radiation is much more dangerous and accumulates faster (configurable)
* Sleeping recovers health/condition depending on time spent sleeping (configurable)
* Built-in Primary Needs feature, requiring you to eat, drink, and sleep on a regular basis (configurable)
* New drug visual effects (configurable)

------------------------
ACTORS
------------------------

* Improved enemy AI and combat performance
* Complete overhaul of faction equipment lists for greater faction diversity and character
* Most creatures have one or more perks, making them tougher and more dangerous
* Improved the survivability and look of trade caravans
* Optional enhanced follower module adds multi-follower support and expands their functionality
* Most repair vendors have a higher repair skill
* Tweaked NPC/Creature health formulas and base health

------------------------
IMMERSION
------------------------

* Many standard containers now respawn across the wastes
* Slower timescale (configurable)
* Increased the global respawn timer to 7.5 days (configurable)
* Vendors respawn independently of the global respawn timer (configurable)
* Fast travel can be disabled (configurable)
* Optional fast travel alternative system, including a new fast-travel motorcycle and travel caravans
* Built-in weapon scanner mod to display accurate weapon stats in the pip-boy (configurable)
* Skill books don't "disappear" after being read
* New bobblehead stand and fully havoc'd bobbleheads
* Tracers removed from most projectiles (optional)
* Improved the balance and of range of choices for the outcast tech quest reward quest

------------------------
SUPPORT
------------------------

* Support for all DLC's, new features and balance changes extended to all DLC content
* Support for Weapon Mod Kits (see FOIP)
* support for Mart's Mutant Mod (see FOIP)
* Support for Energy Visuals Enhanced (see FOIP)
* Support for Project Beauty (see FOIP)