Seems like something to aspire to, but I feel a romantic fool when I think of it.

Oscuro (http://www.gamesas.com/user/127850-jorge-salgado/) of Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul now works for Obsidian.

Seems I have a ways to go then.

have you ever heard of a game called Counterstrike?

And Portal.

Note that in both cases Valve hired the teams working on the mods. Said another way, they bought the product.

Flash, who modded The Witcher, now works for CD Projekt Red. Some of his combat ideas that were in his mod became part of The Witcher 2.

I'm sure there are others

MARTIGEN! Oh my god have I always wanted to talk to you. I'm considering making something that adds a lot (151 to be exact) creatures to the game, but unfortunately my current skill level is only such that I can use vanilla character meshes. I was wondering if perhaps you had a general process you could describe to creating new creature types? (how to animate them, model them, get them in game, etc.)
Eventually this may turn into an overhaul that makes pokemon red/blue out of the skyrim engine, but I really can't expect anyone to be interested if they all look like Skyrim creatures.

You're in the same boat as me, though I may be a tad further along. I've been modding for three years, and now dedicated 6-8 hours a day to it. My hope is to get a job at BGS. I'm trying to get a job at gamesas this summer to nudge my way into the business. I'm currently working on what will be the largest new lands mod ever completed. (Since all the other giant ones are still works-in-progress) I'm hoping that that will impress BGS enough that they offer me a job. Then again, that's a best case scenario. But yes, Obscuro got a job, and I've heard that plenty of others in communities for all types of games have been hired.

Beth would do well to hire Martigen there (loved MMM, dude) and DARn. A TES game with wonderful monsters (spiders, mummies, and bears just isn't cutting it in Skyrim) and an amazing UI? Yes, please.

I agree. One of the most disappointing trends in modern gaming is the dearth of enemy types. I feel like if Martigen here could make as many creatures as he did largely or entirely by himself, sure a team of paid people could accomplish the same or better.

If you're currently working on it, doesn't that make yours still a work-in-progress as well?

Currently, yes. But I plan on releasing in August (Hopefully...), and all the others seem (As far as I know) years from being done. So, at the time of completion, my mod will be the largest new land mass ever completed.

Is it just a land mass, or is it populated with people to do things to see?

You have to remember that the very reason that they can create such wonderful mods is because they are not working for Bethesda

If you work for a company, you have to go with the top brass's decision. Sometimes you can do things freely, but more often than not you have to follow the orders

Modders can create mods without any repercussions: They don't have to worry about resources and stuff. The most popular mods like HD textures do not take into account the processing power of its user (the Lite version is not exactly the full version, if you catch my meaning)

But employees can only go so far.

Also, there are things to consider regarding the nature of the mod. For example, you probably will say "They should've hired Quarn and Kivan!" by virtue of UnOfficial Patches, but you have to realize that they by themselves do not find the bugs to fix. Their only role is to fix bugs, something the dev team are already good at

I seem to recall Liquidgraph (Lost Spires) got hired somewhere as a direct result of making that mod.

Indeed. I can't recall who hired him though.

Yeah, it would make more sense to hire those guys as beta testers. Sadly I think you're right about monetary cost really being a huge factor in how many different enemy types a company produces. The thing is, with Skyrim totalling 300 Million + copies sold, I honestly don't see why they couldn't spend a couple bucks making a game with a more interesting enemy set.

Then again, flying dragons probably took up a LOT of their time.

That is true and I miss that guy. Wonder what game he's working on if any right now.

Its a business started with intentions to make something good, ends with the intentions of making something profitable. You cant mix hobby with jobby basically. There's a world of difference between turning your computer on and working for fun and turning it on at 9am knowing you get an hour for lunch (probably not paid) and finish at 5 (well finish getting paid at 5 but probably working until 6, 7 getting nearer to deadline, midnight as the deadline hoves into view etc).

My career started as a volunteer, then became a job, then became a career that's still ok but doesnt have the sparkle of the early years. Be carefully when receiveing the gifts of pandora and you're doing the right thing by putting a toe in the door and having a look around. I wish you all the best.

@ Alexander J Velicky; wow you're ambitious. A large world mod finished by August? You might be better off making the entire world but only developing a section of it to show quality of work. We've already seen what can be achieved by a whole team of people working to a deadline then having to patch, patch, patch again and then delay and patch some more. Sloppy.

It might be best to get in touch with Bethesda and ask them what would impress. Give them what you know will make them nod sagely and say, "lets have this fella, he's good, he can deliver"

For now I'm just tinkering, getting a feel for the CK. I managed to make 4 mods in the past 48 hours though, some more impressive than others. Soon I'll start thinking about serious projects, which might either be a PokeMod, or an original game where you battle raisable monsters.

New people, towns, quests, all that. Of course it isn't just a blank empty landmass! I have written almost 600 years of history and all that!
I have. I've talked with developers from gamesas, BGS, Obsidian. Portfolio is the most important thing. I will start working on a big shiny Masters Degree in Level Design next year, but that's just to put a cherry on top if I can't build up an impressive enough portfolio to be hired first. And trust me, I've rushed before and I'm not messing this up. This the biggest most important project I've ever done, and I want to get it right. August is a guess right now. That would be awesome, but chances are I'll end up pushing it back pretty far. Then again, at 6-8 hours a day, I get one main quest done a week and add 1-2 dungeons a week as well. They are fairly high quality stuff, the same level of quality as my previous mods which people have said are awesome. Plus I have plenty of QA Testers to tell me if I rush too much or do something poorly.

Anywho I don't want to hijack this thread and make it about me. The point is, yes people have gotten hired before, and it's bound to happen again. (Fingers crossed!)

If you aren't able to work 12-18 hour days, you're going to have a tough time in the industry and an even tougher time in the movie industry. The only people I know that work 9-5 are bankers and pharmacists. Passion is key, and passion is what keeps you doing 20 hour days going on nothing but a half-empty box of cheerios.

I average 80 hours per week, but there have been times where I have clocked well over 120.

This.

I love modding and sometimes the thought occurs to me that I'd like working for Bethesda. But then I remember that I would have relatively little freedom and would often need to make things that I do not like. Working 16 hours per day on a project I love I can do, but if I'd get disappointed in the direction of the project I might get depressed.

No, if I'd ever get into game development to make a living, I'd join or start an indy company myself. One that cares more about their vision than going with what sells best, and without bosses at the top who don't know anything about making games and only care about profit.

Hey Ducey

I can offer advice as you're building it and encounter problems. Send me a PM.


I certainly wouldn't say no, but it'd have to be a remote position as I'm in Australia!


MMM (for both Oblivion and Fallout 3) wasn't just me. If you look at the credits you'll see dozens of names -- I relied on modelers, texture artists, and in some cases coders (as with MMM for Ob's crafting system which I couldn't dedicate enough time to). My strengths, I guess, were creating a vision for what I wanted to see in terms of creature diversity, behaviour, special effects and features (heh, like Ghoul Raising in F3 or the Ghostly Apparition in Ob which scared the pants off people even though it was a non-hostile!). I'm mostly a coder, though I have dabbled in modeling, texturing and sound editing in creating the MMMs.

I digress. Point is any large project like MMM usually requires a lot of talented people. And that's a good thing, because everyone excels in different things (and you then get the best of every-thing.)


Just putting it out there -- and I don't mean to offend in any way -- but this isn't something to be proud of. Life is more than work, and if you accept the 'norm' is an 80 hour week, then you'll work an 80 hour week up until the day they put you in ground. And perhaps before you die you'll wonder where your life went.

Companies that expect you do an 80 hour week are not companies you want to work for. In fact, more and more businesses are recognising the benefits of work/life balance for their staff -- those who have a good balance are happier, more productive, more creative and more loyal (less likely to jump ship) -- all of which translates better to a bottom line than employees being an over-worked sweatshop. This is has been proven time and again. You don't want to work for a company that expects you to do 80 hour weeks not just for your own quality of life, but that a company expecting this isn't one that's being managed well and won't provide good future opportunities for you.

And certainly, in my career, I have always looked after my staff -- told them to go home if they were working late, made sure they always scheduled leave, and looked after them if something happens (as it always does) in life. In return I've had loyal employees and a very successful career (I'm a mag editor/journo by trade, and in my tenure my mags have won best IT mag in Australia more than once). Sometimes the responsible thing to when given a deadline that would mean severely overworking for you and your staff is not to put everyone to the grindstone -- it's to go to management and say it can't be done. Or it can be, but you need X resources and Y time.

I digress (again!). It just concerns me that people think overworking is the norm. It's not, unless you say it is, and then you only have yourself to blame. You choose where you work, and if doesn't suit you, doesn't serve you, doesn't fulfill you and give you that work/life balance, move on.

Martigen, I wish more supervisors and managers in the US shared your opinion, because I fully agree with that, but sadly most don't. In the US, employees who aren't seen as willing to marry their jobs usually find themselves out of one in a hurry. I've seen far too many people I worked with succumb to the stress, and I myself got booted over much the same thing when I pushed back and told management what they were asking wasn't possible in the timeframe they wanted it done in.

Well said. I certainly agree. I just turned 18, I'm a Senior in high school, with only two classes a day. My schedule is basically; Wake up, go to school, come home at lunch, do work, go to sleep. All I do is work on my mod. It's certainly taking it's toll, but I'm not backing off until I have a job at BGS. Then I don't think I would want to work more than 8 hours a day. Hell, I love video games, I love making them. They are my passion. But you have to pace yourself. As soon as I can I'm backing off. Then you have a period to focus on games and developing them, and a period to focus on life outside of work. Constantly doing games for too long would drive me insane and start having dramatic consequences.