HDD Crisis Faked?

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 5:07 am

http://news.softpedia.com/news/HDD-Crisis-Was-Fake-Seagate-and-Western-Digital-Post-Big-Profits-266676.shtml

In a report from earlier his year, we found out that Seagate even managed to increase its HDD shipments with around 2% when compared to the previous year. Where exactly was that “crisis?”

Now Seagate proudly announces it has decided to spend 2.5 billion dollars to repurchase a considerable amount of its outstanding ordinary shares. Spending 2.5 billion dollars less than a year after buying Samsung’s HDD division for another 2 billion doesn’t really seem like a company “suffering” from a “crisis.”

Western Digital, too, has just announced its fiscal third quarter financial results. Despite recently acquiring HGST (that’s Hitachi’s HDD division) in March last year and also “suffering” from a “difficult crisis,” they’ve made a net income of 146 million dollars, or 62 cents per share.
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Leilene Nessel
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:36 am

The prices for HDDs had gotten so low, they were probably just waiting for an excuse to raise them again. :confused:
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Dan Wright
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 4:36 pm

Well, seagate was expected to increase their shipments as they were largely unaffected by the flooding.

Profits in general will go up because hard drives have a certain stickiness to them that causes demand to not fluctuate much quickly in reaction to a price hike just like gasoline....


.... Gawd, did my introductory Econ class actually prove useful for once? :blink:
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Kelly Tomlinson
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 9:58 am

Well, seagate was expected to increase their shipments as they were largely unaffected by the flooding.

Profits in general will go up because hard drives have a certain stickiness to them that causes demand to not fluctuate much quickly in reaction to a price hike just like gasoline....


.... Gawd, did my introductory Econ class actually prove useful for once? :blink:

Supply and Demand is always in everything from your HD's to agriculture to shampoo. Right now in FL a "bumper crop" of tomatoes have caused prices to plunge. Farmers have so many they can't even pay workers to harvest the things. Think they are going for like 25lbs for $1 or something like that.
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naomi
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 6:10 pm

Supply and Demand is always in everything from your HD's to agriculture to shampoo. Right now in FL a "bumper crop" of tomatoes have caused prices to plunge. Farmers have so many they can't even pay workers to harvest the things. Think they are going for like 25lbs for $1 or something like that.
Obviously supply and demand are in everything, but stickiness refers to the slop of either supply or demand. The more sticky the demand for something is, the more bertical the demand slope. This means for any arbitrary increase in price won't cause a significant drop in demand, especially over the short run. You combine this with a shift in the supply curve, and under some circumstances profits can be higher producing less than producing more (which is why OPEC limits the amount of oil each member country can release, as it increases their profit margins though this is a considerable oversimplification of their practice on the level of oversimplification someone would get in an introductory econ class)

... Look what you made me do! Doing econ first thing in the morning...
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Jessica Thomson
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:08 am

eh, a discussion. I came in here expecting an argument over High definition Crysis graphics being fake. Gotta pay more attention to titles :P
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Mariana
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 7:49 pm

And the OP is surprised how? Almost everything that is labeled as an emergency really isn't.
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Pants
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 6:00 pm

Hardware manufacturers pulling a fast one in order to drive prices up? Surely not, that sort of thing is unprecedented! A bit.
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Carlos Vazquez
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:11 am

And the OP is surprised how? Almost everything that is labeled as an emergency really isn't.

Honestly, though, it's kind of hard to fake a lot of electronics factories in Thailand being under 10+ feet of water. No matter what you believe about market manipulation/etc, a whole bunch of manufacturing capability did get hosed.
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Flesh Tunnel
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:49 am



Honestly, though, it's kind of hard to fake a lot of electronics factories in Thailand being under 10+ feet of water. No matter what you believe about market manipulation/etc, a whole bunch of manufacturing capability did get hosed.

I don't doubt that at all. I never said the flooding never happened.

Fuel crisis of the 1970's? Oh, noes! Ders no mo gas fo my cars! Da government says da werld is out of gas!

Same issue today with fuel shortages and "going green"/"renewable resources".

Thailand is under water? NO MORE HARD DRIVES! EVER!

See the pattern?

All I was saying was that it's absurd to believe that due to flooding there was an HDD shortage. Like Thailand is the only place in the whole of the world that HDDs can be made.
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John N
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 7:01 pm

All I was saying was that it's absurd to believe that due to flooding there was an HDD shortage. Like Thailand is the only place in the whole of the world that HDDs can be made.

Quick search on world production capacity, got me this....

Posted 2011-10-19 06:26:25
The impending hard drive shortage -- and possible price hikes
Flooding near Bangkok has taken about 25 percent of the world's hard disk manufacturing capacity offline
By Woody Leonhard

If you're going to need hard drives this year or early next year, it would be smart to get your sources locked in now.

Disk manufacturing sites in Thailand -- notably including the largest Western Digital plant -- were shut down due to floods around Bangkok last week and are expected to remain shut for at least several more days. The end to flooding is not in sight, and Western Digital now says it could take five to eight months to bring its plants back online. Thailand is a major manufacturer of hard drives, and the shutdowns have reduced the industry's output by 25 percent.

Western Digital, the largest hard disk manufacturer, makes more than 30 percent of all hard drives in the world. Its plants in Ayutthaya's Bang Pa-In Industrial Estate and Pathum Thani's Navanakorn Industrial Estate together produce about 60 percent the company's disks. Both were shut down last Wednesday. (Western Digital also has a major plant in Malaysia that hasn't been affected by the floods, so some production will likely shift to that plant.)

Fourth-ranked hard-disk manufacturer Toshiba makes more than 10 percent of the world's hard disks, and half of its capacity is in Thailand. Toshiba's plant has also been closed due to flooding.

Key disk component suppliers have also been hit. Nidec, which makes more than 70 percent of all hard drive motors, has temporarily suspended operations at all three of its plants in Thailand, affecting 30 percent of its production capacity. Hutchinson Technologies, which makes drive suspension assemblies, has also suspended operations due to power outages, although it says it will shift operations to its U.S. plant.

Seagate, the second-largest hard disk manufacturer, has two plants in Thailand, but neither is in the flooded parts of the country. Seagate notes that "the hard disk drive component supply chain is being disrupted and it is expected that certain component in the supply chain will be constrained." Translation: Component prices are going up, at least for some parts.

So, no. It's not "the only place they can be made". But there's a good % of production, and a larger % of production of some of the sub-components there. This is where supply & demand kicks in.... the supply of parts and the demand of the manufacturers. If drive motors are more scarce, then even if you do final assembly elsewhere, prices still go up. Leading to higher final prices.

And, as pointed out, demand for finished drives doesn't really change - if your computer's going top run, it needs one. So the price going up didn't effect demand much. People still bought them. Which, surprise, leads to increased profits. (Because, even if your factory wasn't in Thailand, you still benefit from higher average HDD prices.)

Yes, I'm sure companies are taking advantage of the situation as best they can. They are in the business of making money after all.

But conspiracy theories? Meh. :shrug:
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jenny goodwin
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:46 pm

I don't doubt that at all. I never said the flooding never happened.

Fuel crisis of the 1970's? Oh, noes! Ders no mo gas fo my cars! Da government says da werld is out of gas!
The fuel crisis was real and due to an OPEC decision. No one said the world was out of gas, OPEC just started limiting their fuel exports. With certain products, you can actually increase profits by decreasing production due to a sticky demand.

Same issue today with fuel shortages and "going green"/"renewable resources".
Not certain what you are referring to with the second half, but I'll just link to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak_theory for the first half. Any oil shortage isn't about depletion of actual oil, but depletion of CHEAP oil.

Thailand is under water? NO MORE HARD DRIVES! EVER!

See the pattern?

All I was saying was that it's absurd to believe that due to flooding there was an HDD shortage. Like Thailand is the only place in the whole of the world that HDDs can be made.
:rolleyes:

There WAS a hard drive shortage. If you bothered reading anything from when this all started you'd see one thing in common everywhere which would be something along the lines of "Seagate will come out a winner here, having very few factories effected by this flood", hence why Seagate was able to increase production.

Outside of seagate, though, production is down for everyone, but this doesn't mean that they cannot increase their profits. Just like demand for oil is sticky, so is demand for hard drives as it is a fundamental technology for various electronics. When demand exceeds supply prices go up until it equalizes and the suppliers profit greatly.
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Alyna
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 4:36 pm

Can't believe people would be desperate enough to buy seagate drives at inflated prices...
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Juan Cerda
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 6:30 pm

Not certain what you are referring to with the second half, but I'll just link to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak_theory for the first half. Any oil shortage isn't about depletion of actual oil, but depletion of CHEAP oil.

And a decent portion of the current price hikes (I've seen numbers quoted around 40%) is entirely due to financial market speculators trading around "oil" entirely on paper. (Article mentioned that the volume of oil traded daily is like 8-10x the actual volume of oil produced.)
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Danel
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 4:06 am

Defron, what I wrote was in jest. I understand that the crisis during the 70's wasn't about running put of fuel. As for the second statement I made, again in jest. But, if you listen to the news they keep saying we need to find alternative fuels because the "world" supply is dwindling.

Again, I don't doubt there was a shortage or that the places manufacturing the devices couldn't manufacture them due to the situations they were faced with. All I'm saying is that the, "crisis faked" article shouldn't be surprising. The situation was made to seem worse than it was to make more money.

I'm not looking for a fight or to start one. I was just saying that it's not surprising they are finding out it's not as bad as originally stated.
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carly mcdonough
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 4:10 am

I told you so. It's not the first time companies fake something to increase profits and sadly it's not going to be the last either.
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CRuzIta LUVz grlz
 
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