http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IBJ5V8kXuo demonstrates that you can achieve the same effect as dual cast destruction spells without needing any magic skills or perks; all you need is a shield and a very available and cheap consumable item that lasts for about 12 minutes.

I don't find this a very convincing argument at all: do you really think it's a good idea to render all magicka-invested level ups a complete and utter waste via enchants? In the current state of the game, players who want to be mages will end up being far more powerful if they start the game off as a Warrior archetype and invest all level-ups in health and stamina, and only become spell casters after getting access to magicka-free spells via enchants. My recently abandoned level 43 mage could have had hundreds more hit points if I'd done that (and thereby avoid being 1-2 shot as often). Personally though, I refuse to exploit the oversight that allows for magicka-free spells; honestly, if you're going to do that you you might as well open the console and turn on godmode.

(sigh) again...

I play pure casters. I speak from experience.

Having 0 cost in ONE school does not mean that magicka level ups are wasted because you will almost certainly have to cast spells from others schools as a pure caster.

Melee has no more complexity or variety than magic. Simple. Different play styles and preferences, but one is not inherently more varied than the other.

Destruction is viable without using Enchantment or Alchemy just as One Handed and Two Handed are viable without using Smithing. Actually, with Jewelry, Smithing could also be under pure casters, of course. Depends how you want to play. Beth lets you make the choice. They just need to add Circlets to the Smithing of Jewelry (hello, Beth? duh!)

All that Enchantment or Alchemy do is make things easier. Nothing more, nothing less.

Of course, if you want to cast Master level Destruction spells, you will need Enchantments, although you don't need to make them yourself. However, you do not NEED to cast Master level spells to be viable and survive with no problem. Likewise, you do not NEED to have Restore Health or Restore Magicka potions that do 200+ pts per swill, either, nor do you have to have super versions of the regen potions. All of these options simply make things easier, but are not needed/required by any means.

All you have to do is use dual wielding perk for destruction, and use incinerate, 270 damage each hit is not underpowered -at- all.

Only with impact right? Impact is a cheap mechanic that should be percentile based.

You need enchanting and alchemy at later levels for it to stay useful.

We just need spell creation. Oh yeah and the old spells I mentioned above.

Spell creation is a cheap mechanic to allow you to be OP. See what I did there?

No, we don't need any of the spells you listed. If we did, I would not be able to play pure casters, would I? I used very few spells in Morrowind or Oblivion. There was no point, after all, as most spells didn't do much (or anything).

No, you do not need enchanting or alchemy for Destruction to always be useful. I play pure casters just fine, after all, as I have said.

Would I like to have spell creation? Sure, because I like to experiment. However, it isn't necessary in order to play. I am experimenting with different things, that's all. It would be easier with spell creation, but also more focused/restricted. As it is, experimentation requires mixing and matching from different areas rather than only one area.

Why because you cannot control yourself: see what I did there.

Then you did not get the most out of the more in depth system and prefer something on a smaller scale. We do need all of them spells as it allowed options and it was better for roleplaying.

Yes you do, for the higher level spells, also you might be one of the people that think impact is ok, its not it should be percentile based.

We agree its fun then: how would it be more focused and restricted thats how it is now. That is what I did it allowed roleplay value and opened up your options as a spell user.

You can get 0 cost in TWO schools with maxed out enchanting and 1 set of gear. Enchanting for magicka-free Destruction and Alteration will give you all the offensive power you need; you can easily stun-lock and kill primary targets without them being able to respond, and whip out paralyze in cases where you're fighting more than one opponent. 'Course, if you want to make use of other schools and still never spend a single level-up on magicka, what's to stop you from carrying a couple extra (very lightweight) items with magicka-free Conjuration and Illusion enchants? Use those to summon your creatures and frenzy/fear an enemy or two, then tap a couple hotkeys and throw those free paralyzes and destruction spells.

Having magicka-free spells via enchants is a broken mechanic, and I really hope it gets fixed. I also hope that there are some improvements to Destruction magic coming down the pipeline, since without abusing the free-spell exploit/oversight it's honestly pretty lackluster. Even after investing most of my level-ups in Magicka, the expert level spells eat through my pool in record time - often before being able to down whatever it is I'm fighting (and with poor hitpoints and forever capping out at 300 armor, assuming of course that my spell doesn't fade mid-fight, running out of magicka is a very bad thing).

You need enchanting for higher level spells to be viable.

You say broken I say its an option.

You choose to use it or not.

You come across as highly spoiled and entitled. I'm surprised anyone is even trying to answer someone who comes across as hostile and rude.

Here's an answer: IF YOU WANT TO KNOW GO FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF and then do the community a favor and post your hard work.

Or just continue to whine and spam.

I haven't played a destruction mage, but I have used destruction on high levels(with actuall high level spells) and in my experience the damage is too low comparred to cast-time and magica-recharge-time. I'm sure there are ways to make it viable, but I have the impression that you have to go somewhat out of your way to get it.

And so, this thread which was supposed to be around numbers or at least hard data, became another cesspool of people throwing around tired slogans and urban myths.

Wish I could close it.

Actually as OP you can request thread lock. Simply use the report function.

Truly? Why thank you.

Completely false statement. You can still compare the damage of two attacks without knowing the HP of the enemy.


The problem could be your attitude. Or the fact that it's pretty easy to look this sort of thing up yourself.


I'd suggest looking into the ancient art of social skills, mate.


This isn't a scientific debate with lots of complex factors where sources need to be cited in the footnotes. Facts like this are extremely easy to check. In the time you've wasted being a jerk, you could have looked all this up yourself.