Ah, I got a good laugh from that, your in the wrong thread and obviously playing Morrowwind. Do me a favor, and just for me, don't post here again until you realize that I called you a big fat liar. Or.. Post me a youtube video to prove how you where able to alter the hardcoding for a such a heavy game and then maybe I'd believe you and take back what I said. But honestly, I haven't seen hardware like that since 2003.

The OP is correct here. This is the the most interesting episode of the Bethesda Flea Circus I have ever seen. And yet, we got fans, arrogance, and not so much as an agreement to be in favor of an overhaul in this coding nightmare. If this game was optimized, it would do very well on all platforms (Console Fans, if it worked better for PC, it will work better for you because consoles are built with very similar PC hardware. Id say 2008 era hardware of course. That includes you too PS3 guys, your game is getting slow isn't it?)

Now aside form unconstructive opinions like the one I just made to somebody who obviously went out of his way to BS this and I couldn't hold myself from quoting him. Lets be reasonable and get this game fixed. I wanna hear from the Bethesda Management too, I don't stand by and see another game get trashed by opinions, and blind defenses, Bethesda is obviously embarrassed too by it's own fans and customers, so lets get through this and make this game better as everyone went crazy for in the first place.

Common, don't quote me to insult me, show that you can make a difference and get this game in favor of some serious optimization. If it's at its best as you think it is, why not make it better? Why should you, any of you settle for less? Make it better, you didn't pay this company in your support, your money, and your time here on the forums just to have it where it is did you? Make it better. Please.

This is someone who doesn't want anything to do with threads. So, wonder why he is here.

Obviously, your the kind of person who doesn't get the larger picture if many would have a problem with it. Your like the other people who say "I don't have a problem with this" because you don't actually play it. A game is a work of art, if it's sloppy, would you still look at it? Of course you would, your devoted for following artist/company who you barely know in person at all. Even if it ran itself off a cliff.

Bethesda is making money hand over fist because they cut corners here. Modders don't get payed, so they get less of the punishment, not to mention they self taught themselves how to professionalize their work at times. 60 Bucks for a game that's gone largely to all kinds. Ask yourself, "Why should Bethesda deserve my thanks?" Because your satisfied, this post does nothing to effect your game, so even if Bethesda applied it the fixes suggested here, nothing would be hurt other than your pride and strange devotion to a company you barely know. Why leave something where it is, why fight improvement? Make something better!

Well, to be honest, hes breaking forum rules. Demonstrating personal opinion rather than contributing to discussion, cept, I'm in favor of the OP because I'm tired of everyone getting their way in the world to where everything ends up dis-functional. We got this kind of stuff all over the internet, but you gotta learn that people like these don't even play the game, so they go out of their way to trash something else because they think they are welcome to do it.

My computer runs at a constant 60FPS everywhere. I payed about $600 max for it. It will outlive this console and the next generation. Well, I take that back, I will upgrade it before then because I like upgrading for no reasons. But my point still stands.

PCs are not as expensive as you people try and make them out to be. They are, in the long run, cheaper then consoles, its just they have a slightly more initial start-up cost the consoles. But through cheaper game costs (And deals on Steam now) the computer pays for itself in no time compared to the $60 console games.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize that in-lining functions that's only task in life is to return a location in memory would be problematic for so many people, all those silly compiler flags that automagically do this and other restructuring of logic flow are just wastes of time I guess and no one should use them. I guess that's why that particular mod's threads are full of people going "this doesn't work for me!" instead of praises of joy from happy people.

Look buddy, the only person making a lot of assumptions and basically missing the big picture is you.
Merry Christmas.

I feel the same way too, my friend owns a PS3, and it does well in certain areas. But I learned, that a system as complex as a PC displays many problems, those problems get upped like x10 times the amount on a console. PC's are not as robust as most people think, they are sensitive and require a lot of care to enjoy some of the best quality in gaming the world has to offer. That's why I say, you make a good patch for PC's, it will rub off big time on the console versions.

I been told I made a lot of assumptions. But at least I stand by them hoping that games might return to being nearly bug free again. I mean, the demand for patches, fixes, and hotfixes has increased ten-fold over the passed couple of years because people been cutting corners. Personally, I get really agitated of buggy games now. Even if it is so much as a framerate problem overlooking areas with tons of unoptimized details and codes. Other games tend to do better jobs, I understand The Elder Scrolls series has been a rather complicated development over the years, but Id expect better than just some cool looking trailers and a product that seems to have limped its way out of the dev department.

Just recently, I got a game called Red Orchestra 2. I cannot begin to explain the problem's I've had with it. But look it up, you may find some articles pertaining to what I do have problems with. There no secrets. And then again, you gotta wonder why there are so many complaints for Skyrim. I give the Devs a pat on the back, but I'm not exactly throwing a party yet.

Oh and, Merry Christmas to you too.

_{Has anyone checked if the same issue exists in the fallout or oblivion code?}

They could be, wasn't this a rebuilt version of their code? Anyways, I gotta wrap up my time here, it's Christmas eve and I wish everyone a good holiday season. Just remember, anything can get some improvements, and I support the OP. Besides, why have a good game when you could have a Great game. I apologize for offending anyone of the people I quoted, but I kinda felt a similar urge to do what most people do when they see something they don't agree with. Lets make some improvements to Skyrim. and have a happy new year!

I would have to agree with the creator of this post.. Having this kind of reputation for unprofessionalism is not what bethesda should allow to happen. I think most people would have respected it more if they took a few more weeks to release the game on pc so they could do some more work on it. Tossing it out to people riddled with bugs and issues was clearly for sales. Some people couldnt even play the game at ALL until weeks after they spent their money on it.

The code this mod fixes is over 10 years old. Both FO3 and OB also ran bad in cities, but they had less objects (I think), so the FPS was still higher. Anyway, it's extremely unlikely that Bethesda had an optimized code for OB and FO3, and then suddenly for Skyrim decided to throw back some unoptimized 10 years old code.

No, I'd say that this code has been in Bethesda's engine since Morrowind was built when Bethesda first got Gamebryo.

This is nothing new to PC gaming and really you're beating a dead horse here.Corporate bottom lines and business models don't mix well with passionate private PC gaming freaks.I count myself as one of the latter.The game works fine for me , the only place I have noticed any drop at all is in Markarth like you said.The sudden drop by simply just being present reminds me of some really older games with modded maps and the problem was described as a "hole" in the map.These guys put out a game that you're passionate enough about to make this post in the first place , so I guess they must've done someting right.

The signs are all there if you just look , when they "showed the game off" he didn't use a powerful PC optimized to REALLY show what the game could look like because PCs have always been cursed with such random things like personal setups , people that build their own PCs but really don't know what they're doing beyond hitting the power button. If you need an example of this go to newegg.com and just read random RAM user reviews.Just because you buy something and it has X numbers you like , doesn't mean you don't have to configure it.Almost every post will mention how they had to manually set or not even know they had to set the speeds.And even RAm itself from the manufacturer is pre-set to a modest setting to insure your computer will even POST to begin with to be able to even set it.

This anology I use because if they had erred on the side of gung-ho massive-omg-i -have-the-best-PC-in-the-world just because people saying this built their own with all these parts and oh hey , IT TURNS ON!It doesn't mean the person is even capable of optimizing the system and making it run at it's rated capability.So you err on the side of lower performance but still looks OK and works.They knew these problems so they chose to show the game to the public using the most similar and best predicted build which was on an xbox.If he had had shown the game on some massive super-computer that just bullied it's way through the game and forced it to look as good as possible and perform flawlessly , then your experience was less than stellar , you would be on this very same forum board complaining about that too.OMG the game doesn't look anything like what Todd played OMG!But he played it on a preset decent console where most PC users should be able to attain the exact same or in some cases better appearance and gameplay , it was the safe route.

Maybe this "problem" wouldn't exist if there weren't so many damn doom-sayers and complainers.I personally have no idea how to make a game , nor do I intend to ever try , they did a good middle of the road job getting a working product out to millions of people.When I say doomsayers I mean all the moronic internet "magazines" and groups etc. that self-righteously proclaimed PC GAMING IS DEAD.It wasn't dead nor will it ever be dead.There's an ebb and flow based around the release of new kickass gaming consoles that can't be denied.When the xbox and PS3 were introduced , it was supposed to be the proverbial nail in the cofin for PC gaming.It wasn't.There will be new consoles released and PC gaming numbers will decline yet again then they will go back up as certain people look for more of whatever they prefer.I personally feel it insults my intelligence to be expected to invest heavily in a TECHNOLOGY that WILL languish and be outdated rather quickly and still be expected to pay premium prices for games I would enjoy to play on something I haven't been able upgrade for the past 6 years.

This is all personal opinion , and each of us is entitled to our own , my opinion is they erred on the side of caution as it's really hard to get a good snapshot of the most common PC performance capabilities in a market with literally millions of people doing god knows what to their hardware and still expecting to play a game like this on ultra everything high blah blah because they sunk $2,000.00 into a Dell last year that they've since overheated the hell out of , let dust gather in it and corrupted the hard drive with midget circus porm.I personally am surrounded by people (freinds) that don't update their PCs , they call me when it's "doing funny stuff" and that's cool because we have some fun and we both usually learn something like stop looking at midget circus porm on your primary partition.

I almost wish Beth had been more gung-ho with the PC and released it thinking oh hey THIS IS A PC SET EVERYTHING TO WARP SPEED AND HIT THE RUN BUTTON OMG.The complaints would.ve been so much more massive it would have been EPIC.So you suppose you're starving , someone just handed you a turkey sandwich and instead of just accepting that for the time being you [censored] because it's not a 5-star steak.Rest easy , you have a PC where some guy was capable of improving percieved performance problems without even having the CK yet , woe to the console people that PAID THE EXACT SAME PRICE for this game and thats all they'll be getting , the game and all official DLC's.No console to poop around with the game after you've grown bored with it , nothing , they're done.Maybe Beth should've disabled the console ability for PC...... no wait , we'd be [censored]ing about that too.

The game was rushed, the game was rushed oh and by the way the game was rushed. The only guys that can fix it are now working on a DLC, moding community is our only hope of getting a finished product, so all bow down and praise the modding community damn it lol. The XBOX people got a rushed job as well, yeah they experiences a little better performance at some areas, but they can’t fix the plethora of bugs and broken quests via console commands and they get them all the same. Everyone who thinks that the bugs are a minor oversight and the game wasn’t rushed, should visit a doctor immediately, almost every single quest of the Bards College was bugged! How the hell do you not see almost every quest being bugged about a college that every NPC talks about???

Some people quickly ganged up on the OP and said he didn’t know what he was talking about, but so what? He doesn’t need to know the mechanics of coding to know that a couple of people with no source code and no CK come along and release a handful of files that improve performance by a lot. You think this doesn’t make Beth look bad? Apparently someone could do it without any of the tools that their PAID personal had available, and they were willing to do it for…wait for it...FRAKING FREE!!!

This is NOT personal opinion. Anyone who has ever worked in the software industry knows that you compile your code in release mode when you are done, which includes optimizations. Especially in a gaming environment, speed is always the top priority. To release a game without even bothering to profile it at least once is just asinine.

This does not apply when you take into account that everything this mod does can be achieved (and surpassed by who knows how much) with automated optimizations through a compiler.

Typos are human mistakes. Compilers don't make them.

Considering that it's a few clicks to change and has nothing to do with the code itself, who knows?

Nothing wrong with the code; it's how it has been compiled in Skyrim that's the problem.

I suppose it's possible that the build flags used in Skyrim could be a remnant of the FO3 & OB build script, but I doubt it.

well folks. its been a nice run and all starting from Daggerfall,to Skyrim and Oblivion which i was forced to on console due to a rather hard to please fanbase that worried more decapitations,killing moves,pretty graphics then rather actual game/technical issues that never get a official fix,turn into pay to play beta roullette. and the ones that were happy with the pixlelated cheesy blood and horrid graphics have seemingly jumped ship. The REAL BASE for the game has been put more to appease the "Call Of Duty" style fanbase which, if this aint the greatest thing since sliced bread, your a damned noob. i realize theres blood in the others. very cheesy. do we really need to see heads chopped off and 300 references for it to be fun? FO3 this belonged. i am not even sure this is a TES game anymore and not a Bram Stroker's Novel. seems its become more about the vicious methods of your enemies demise and getting that great magical armor, this is good and all. but the main point is to have fun. whatever it takes,and then screaming at people who critize the game...........and eventually. they take over. its total crap then on out and the fans are so hardcoe and uptight and jerks that it is no fun to play,this has happened to a game i mentioned above. im scared to even touch a new TES for what i might see,Daggerfall and Morrowind are showing thier age. no doubt. but ive had less technical problems and had more fun. wise up bethseda is my advice. we arnt beta testers :/

I call BullS#$%

That is BS. I had people asking me for help with a system built from $1500 or more , maxing out all the RAM and 400 dollar graphics cards, i7 chip and so on, and they can't do that either.

*cough* fraps screen shot of dragonreach view looking at the tree pls.

.... I was just stating that i agreed with him, no need to post the same thing. besides, if i didn't want anything to do with threads, why did i bother to read it

Your framerate is 60+ in these places?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/skyrim6.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/skyrim5w.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/skyrim4.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/skyrim3.jpg/

Man I would like to have your computer then. But first I would like to see you post images from those places with fraps or msi afterburner showing 60+ fps.
Let me get my crystal ball. I can see ... it not happening.