Which further confirms my belief Bethesda put five or six guys on porting the game, or even ha just five or six pc programmers left





Way to miss the point, your reason for why it is a bad anology is actually a reason why it is good

That part wasn't the serious part of my post I thought the "for shame" bit gave it away. My bad

I could be totally off base but I remember Firefox going though an optimisation phase for v4, it took months to work the bugs out just from the "standard" flags. I'm not saying they shouldn't of got it done just that maybe there is more to it.

I'll be honest I stopped reading once you put the words hero and arsonist in the same sentence, I read it again and see the point, basically saying Beth isn't any better, so I apologize on my part. I still wouldn't have used that as the anology.

how about the cop that funds criminal organizations so that he can arrest a few of the low level gang members to look good. is that a better anology?

See, console users can be elitists too

hey it might seem like I'm trolling, but really I'm just trying to keep this thread on the first page so bethesda will hopefully respond because, I do want the OP to get the answers he seeks.

Actually, I think what you are trying to do is the definition of trolling

I have no FPS problems either, and I'm on PC, playing on Ultra settings.

AMD Phenom II Black quadcore, 3.0ghz
Radeon HD5770
Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
16gigs of ddr2 ram
Western Digital Caviar Black harddrive

So it's not like I'm on some hyper-powered rig either.

No FPS hits so far at all. God only knows how many hours I've put in (I keep changing characters).

It is an extremely unoptimized engine. I think Beth should hire some modders to help them next time.

The Xbox lacks the longevity, content and raw power of the PC. A Mac is not a computer, its a draconian lockbox for people who don't know any better.

Wouldn't call this is a lazy port as far as optimisation goes. I have a medium build pc, have most settings maxed, res at 1680X1050 and it plays like a dream. Couldn't be happier with how it runs tbh.

Kastansa, the fact that it works well on your pc doesn't erase the fact that on other configuration, maybe even bigger rigs than yours, it just doesn't work as well. No one is angry with people who have good performance or asking for revenge. Hence the question about optimisation and pc porting. The question is valid and the reason for all the performance problem may be valid from bethesda's point of view but since one of the biggest fan base is ignored by officials from bethesda, we can just wonder if they're just lazy and won't admit it, or if they just took the money and ran, or...
There is a wide gap between the discourse and promises made by beth and their sweet talking todd howard and the actual result. The fact that modders are quickly finding smart solution to blatent programming flaws while bethesda doen't say much about anything alsoraises questions about their implication in pc porting.

maybe it's as simple as they could care less about peak performance optimization on PC.

Peak performance is one thing (that's generally spending ages tweaking things for an extra 1 or 2% here) - but a sweeping, poorly done job that a coder without the Skyrim source, creation kit, or support from Bethesda which can speed CPU-related tasks up by such a gigantic degree...? That's not them not caring about "peak performance on a PC" - that's them being extremely slack. And by the sounds of it, this is a core engine thing, not necessarily PC specific - and so optimisations could be thrown at all three platforms.

Part of it could be applied to Xbox360 and PS3 (not sure about how they handle function inlining), but I'm guessing most of the performance increase comes from updating the hammered code to SSE which would be a PC (x86) thing. Unless we're talking about the original Xbox.

Honestly, I don't need Bethesda to apologize or give an explanation about why they didn't make this in the official release. This mod improves performance, ok. How many people tested it? No crashes so far? If so, then what I'd really like to know is if Bethesda is willing to add this mod to an official patch. If not, I don't mind using the mod, but I'll wait until the official mod directory is supported under Steam Workshop.

see and here i thought i was going to have to wright the word arrogance repeatedly but it appears, this time at least, to be true! hats of to the modder.

i love bethesda but its always appeared there technical skill is ambitious but rubbish. lol

some well loved people in that company must svck when it comes to coding.

Yeah, don't know what fps hits they are talking about either, I play on Ultra (1920x1080) with Ambient Occlusion turned on and 8x AA.

Pentium4 3Ghz with GForce 6800 256 GB, 2GB ram, Win98ME.

Really, game runs smooth as silk for me. Constant 60fps.

There are are at least 30 testimonials in these threads:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1321657-tesv-acceleration-layer-offers-cpu-optimization-massive-possible-performance-increases-now-in-skse-plugin-format/
and
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1321575-rel-tesv-acceleration-layer/ (original)

Anywhere from 5-25 average FPS gain, mostly tested in cities, especially the two biggest FPS eaters: Markath and Riverwood (maybe it's all that water?)

Also, checking with Xbox360 dev guys, the function inlining portion may be applicable (if Bethesda so chooses).

People always blame the developers and coders, which I don't agree with. Problems like Skyrim has experienced are not the fault of the individual coders or even indicative of deficiencies in their skillset. I would wager that Bethesda's technical team knows each of the issues and even the causes. So what gives?

Management and Marketing. Bethesda had to hit an arbitrary marketing target of 11/11/11, whether everything is ready to go or not. Ok, so they hit the date, warts and all. Now it's time to fix the bugs, right? Nope, this is the gaming industry. After ship comes staff reduction, since they were probably all contractors anyway! Management reduces payroll, or at least reassigns people to other revenue generating projects. Bugs will be fixed by another skeleton maintenance team or off-shored to a low-cost provider, who are not very familiar with the code. That's how you get patches that make things worse, not better.

So what about the rest of the core team that didn't get sacked or reassigned? They must be helping fix bugs, right? Hell no. The survivors are busy with DLC. And DLC is new revenue, so don't disturb them with your silly-ass bugs. Fixing bugs doesn't make any money, so fix as few as possible, for as cheap as possible.

This isn't exclusive to Bethesda either - you could look at almost any studio (except maybe Blizzard) and see the pattern repeated.

What you say is irrelevant, because this performance issue could be fixed well before 11/11/11; I'm not talking about it getting added by patches. As far as I understand as well, it's an easy fix that take very little time (a day for 1 developer?). During 3 years of development, surely 1 developer have time for 1 day to improve performance by up to 40%.

I've yet to see a valid excuse for doing what Bethesda did.

To Arisu's credit (the guy who made the patch)... he's definitely a coder, not a modder.

This game was made to run on legacy consoles from 2006. They will just let the modders make it work better on PC. Sad but true.

Well I don't see why Bethesda have to "explain" to you their design decision. If they did, and they signed off by calling you stupid, will that make you happy? Because you calling them incompetent based on your own ignorance is pretty much that.

Of course, you may be right. But the fact is, you do not know.

Bethesda doesn't even know how to make ladders. They can't figure out how to make particle collision work. Apparently they can't figure out how to get rid of the visible water-surface line either.
I can list tons of examples of things that modders have been able to solve and that other games have solved many years ago, and who aren't even professionals. Now that such a basic code fix is missed in their "new engine" that is "completely rewritten" (Todd's own words) and that is over 10 years old... Yeah, it all makes you wonder what the heck they are doing.

I'm not calling them incompetent, but I am saying that it's definitely a possible explanation that fits very well with what I just said above. Just as said before, I've yet to see a valid excuse for doing what Bethesda did.