Hey dude awesome to see this is coming to Skyrim IMCN for FO3 and FNV was wicked couldn't play without them.

I was thinking on the h/m/s side of things though, when it comes to stamina what might be a good idea is if instead of making it reg over time you actually make it decrease over time instead and the only was of fully regaining 100% is by sleeping. And you you could also have you stamina start affecting your magicka sould it get to low your magic will then start to decrease.

Along with the other effects food and water can help to slow it down but with all the day to day activities over the day (as in real life) you inevitably get tired and to refresh yourself you have a nap.

Something like that would add that extra of realism as you would have to plan what you do making sure your fully refreshed before you go...does that seem like something that can be done of is that a bit to much maybe?

Ok, found this by following the link provided in another thread...

Just wanted to say that I'm really looking forward to this one and I have a small request;
Please, PLEASE try to make the hunger / drink requirements in a more realistic manner...

What I mean is that in New Vegas for example, during the day you'd have to sometimes consume like 10 steaks to fill your days need of food, or something like that.
Not very realistic. 3 meals a day should be enough.

Cheers.

Things are progressing well. Vampirism is up and running and ready for me to start playtesting for balance - I'm working on that part first for a number of reasons, its simple, my current character's a vampire, and it presented one of the few new technical challenges, how to tell when the player is feeding, and whether they've already fed on their current prey recently. The code for vampirism is largely shared by the rest of the hts stuff, so I'm killing several birds with one stone as I shake it down for bugs. I also put together the backbone for the penalty/bonus effects - really love this new language, it has some great tricks up its sleeve. Basically its going to let me be a lot more precise with my penalties and bonuses, while allowing auto-updates that won't break everybody's games.


There are going to be a couple of new stats, mental and physical fatigue. You need 8 hours of sleep a day no matter what just like in past versions, but depending on how physically or magically active you are, you'll get more fatigued as the day goes by. You'll need to sleep or at least sit and rest to recover from fatigue. I plan to keep magicka and stamina regeneration in though, and instead the fatigues will decrease their maximum amounts, so after 3 or 4 dungeons in a day a character will only have 1/3rd or so the available stamina and magicka.

My reasoning behind it is this: stamina in this game works very similarly to fast twitch muscle, the muscle you use when performing very taxing activities - like sprinting, power swinging a greatsword, basically all the sorts of activities that require stamina in Skyrim. Fast twitch muscle tires quickly, over the course of a minute or so, but also recovers quickly, again over the course of about a minute. But the more times you tire it out, the less powerful it becomes, and the more quickly it tires.



The consumption rates for this mod are modeled as closely as possible on reality, so if your character does nothing but sit around all day, they'll only need three realistic meals to get by. But if they're highly active, they'll need to eat more. The average person eats about 2000 calories a day, the average pro cyclist eats more like 5000 to 8000 when they're training. The average Skyrim character spends all day every day swinging swords and running with a heavy pack, which puts them closer to the pro cyclist end of the spectrum (in fact I had to tone the numbers down from reality quite a bit to keep things reasonable.) The new fatigue mechanic might help keep those numbers in check though, since in theory it should make you rest a bit each day.

I've decided not to include it in the first version due to time constraints, but the first update of this mod is going to add a set of configuration menus where you can tweak stuff like that though - if you set all the activity multipliers to 1.0, you'd eat 3 meals a day no matter what. The basics of that config menu are largely written so it won't take me long to finish it up, but having to redo all the menus every time I make a change was getting old.

will there be different values for different races? argonians and khajiits for example would probably do better on a more meaty diet.

I'm looking forward to this, I was hoping a hardcoe mode would be in Skyrim like New Vegas, but alas, it was not.

Most likely, though at first it will probably mostly effect the appeal of foods - cannibals will really like human flesh, vampires will really like blood, khajiit and argonians will really like meat (especially fish.) The way I'm implementing the penalties and bonuses though (through scripts rather than stock effects) should let me get a lot more elaborate. I tend to update my mods frequently, and incorporate a lot of new ideas and user suggestions as time goes by, so you can expect this mod to grow a lot.

Since you asked about the nature of vampires: Vampires have a rather unsavory http://www.imperial-library.info/content/opusculus-lamae-bal-ta-mezzamortie in TES. They were, uh, made by one of the daedra, apparently out of his endless desire to make everything worse. Caution: There are no pictures, but the contents of that story fall under NSFW in my mind.

I just had a thought WRT fast travel. Would it be possible to have the character automatically eat/drink while fast traveling, rather than arriving completely starved and dehydrated?

Thanks for the link. Sounds fairly supernatural.


Auto-eat is an interesting idea, but would take a bit to code, so it's probably not going to happen for the first release. It would also open the door for applying the IMCN system to followers, something that would be kind of cool - give them food to keep in their inventory, they eat it automatically and get the same penalties and bonuses that the player would. For fast travel though, what I'd kind of like to do would be to limit fast travel distance, basically prevent you from traveling more than a third of a day per fast travel. I'm not sure how possible that would be though. I'd probably need some way to disable individual location markers.

Oooh nice that sounds like it will work out a lot better then the idea I was thinking of, one other thing though I noticed all other needs mods that's been released so far are optimized for a low timescale like 6, if your doing something similar would you be able to make it so it's adjustable to whatever timescale suites the user or so it works regardless whatever the timescale

I think in one of the hypothermia threads there was an idea to have a consumable "camp kit" that was consumed each time you used FT.

What about using a "lunch box" item that stores food just for traveling. Since it's only used for traveling you wouldn't need to keep track of the actual food in it, just the total number of calories in it. It's not exactly elegant, but it would be a place to start.

I'm in the process of writing the penalty/bonus effects (2 down, 9 to go, mostly copy/paste.) After that its time for debugging and filling out the nutrition info for foods, then I should be able to release.


This one won't really be any different, but I'm planning on making all of the rates adjustable (should be part of the first update.) If you wanted to use a timescale of 20 instead of 5, just lower all the rate multipliers to 0.25.


That sounds like an option. At the moment though, you could just eat before you travel and it'd have about the same effect (you digest the food as you're traveling, so by the time you get to your destination, any "too full" penalties will have worn off.)

I guess that's simpler. And I'm a huge fan of KISS.

Wow i can't wait to try this! been looking forward to something like this since Skyrim was released!

I have an idea concerning moon sugar and skooma addiction. Eating/drinking moon sugar or skooma produces confusing visual effects, as well as sapping your stamina, and it can also get you addicted. If you have too much, (4 skooma/8 moon sugar over 3 days, perhaps?) you will start to get penalties for everyday you go without. After a couple of weeks without taking them, the effects start to go away. Khajiit are less affected by moon suger, but can never fully lose an addiction. However, skooma affects them twice as much.
It's quite complex and may be hard to do, but if you could make this it would be amazing.

But there also has to be bonuses for using skooma then

Why? Can it not just be for roleplaying purposes? It would be unrealistic for skooma to help you, except mabye a mild slow time.

You wouldn't drink poison, would you? It has to do something good since it's so addicting.

I'm not touching potions at all with the first release, but I would like to track skooma similarly to the way I'm tracking alcohol and caffeine. I had an addiction mechanic that I started using for stimpaks in New Vegas that I could adapt - it kept track of how much was in your system on average over the last few days, and applied a penalty if your current level was below that average. Any benefits it applied would only happen if you were above the average, so you'd build up a tolerance to it over time as well as the addiction.

From what I've seen in lore, skooma is refined from moon sugar, so I'd think it would have the same effects, just more intense.

I've got a suggestion, though I suppose it's probably been covered already by someone else, but I still think it fits rather nicely with what you're doing - a more advanced fatigue and walking/running system. What I really want is to actually feel like I'm trudging through snow when I'm trudging through snow. That it slows the movement rate down and is tougher on the stamina, making snow passages like mountains and other high places more interesting and realistic. This would also go well with the Hypothermia idea brought up earlier. It probably doesn't really fit your mod like a glove, but it's still part of how the body works and it could probably do wonders to both immersion and realism. Just an idea I've had, and like I said, someone might already have covered this, but since your sort of onto the subject I thought I'd share it with you!

You might want to consider having the same effects, but perhaps a different timing as well. I'm thinking like the difference between smoking and eating marijuana.

I love the sound of this except for coffee. Tea sounds more logical, but coffee in a medieval Nordic rugged country? I don't think there should be coffee

All in all, the mod sounds extremely good

Agreed. Maybe the Jarls might have coffee (imported from somewhere more tropical) but most caffeine should come from teas.

The nutrition info is all filled out, so I'm play testing and things are going well. The eating/drinking animations are working (I really like them, but you can disable them if you don't.) Bottling water is a bit more difficult though - very little of the water in the game is actual water activators, so there aren't many places to drink or refill bottles (mostly interior water.) I'll have to add bottled water to vendors. Or you could just be a man and drink mead SKSE may be able to help with this in the future, and I'll continue to look into it, but for now I'd rather finish up other stuff than continue to butt my head up against it.

I'm using a new system to apply penalties and bonuses - script effects that adjust actor values directly. It has a number of advantages over applying them via existing effects - I can ramp up penalties rather than applying them at full strength as soon as you pass some threshold value, I can rebalance them without breaking everybody's game, and I can adjust a lot more values without grossly cluttering up your active effects menu. They're also applied as a percent increase of your base actor values rather than a set amount, so the penalties scale with your character and won't be too strong at low levels or too weak at higher ones. There's a separate menu system for viewing your active effects, that also has the benefit of giving you an idea of what the penalties and bonuses are before you're being effected by them.


That sounds pretty good - caffeine has some good buffs at the moment, it would be better for balance if it were more difficult to obtain (like you have to raid a Jarl's personal stash, or pay an exorbitant amount to a khajiit trader.) I agree that coffee isn't a very Nordish drink, but in my mind it fits pretty well with the Khajiit.

I could also see a certain bar in Riften carrying it as a "soft" drug.