I'm not particularly prone to outbursts of negativity, and I don't intend on entertaining that carnal desire right now. However, I must ask...

...Who's the mentally-challenged mother-[censored] who decided to tie the Pyromaniac perk (which adds a damage bonus to fire-based weapons) to the Explosives skill? For those of you who haven't really approached fire-based weapons in any capacity, remember that they include the Incinerator, Heavy Incinerator, Flamer, Shiskebob, and Incendiary Grenade. The first three items on that list are classified under Energy Weapons in New Vegas. The fourth is so rare that it may as well be non-existent. And the fifth is an explosive which, like the fourth, is uncommon in the wasteland.

Now, my reasoning could be wrong here. I'm not sure if incendiary rounds and grenade rifle rounds are affected by Pyromaniac's damage modifier. But, it seems to me that when someone uses flame-based weapons, they're going to use the ones tied to energy weapons 9 times out of 10. Why do you think Obsidian tied this useful perk to explosives when there is only 1 (or possibly 2, if incendiary rounds from the grenage rifle count) explosive weapons that are flame-based? Why should I have to minor in explosives to get the most out of my energy-based character?

It's a bonus for those characters focusing on both Explosives and either Energy Weapons or Melee (or both if they're working on all three skills). Some perks are combinations like this.

Ahh, so that's why my Energy Weapons char doesn't have it yet! Oh well, he does have foodles of skill points, I'll just put some more in Explosions.

I think it was overlooked.
And if it wasn't then it was [censored] game design IMO.

Much like the Slayer perk appeals to users of both melee and unarmed? If that's the case, why must the character favor one skill when it applies to both? Slayer requires 90 unarmed points - a better design choice might be a requirement of 90 unarmed or 90 melee.

I think the same applies to Pyromaniac. It should require 60 points in either explosives or energy. Perks should contribute to a character build - character's shouldn't be built around a single perk.

agreed

The only weapon skill without a fire effect is unarmed.

Explosives, Melee, Energy and Guns all have at least one incendiary weapon. Just because energy weapons have the majority of fire based weapons doesn't mean it gets the perk

With all due respect, why do you say that? Having the majority of incendiary weapons classified under "Energy" seems like a very good reason for the perk to depend on the energy weapons skill. To me, anyways.

I realize it might sound like I'm wanting to have my cake and eat it, too, but it's more of a matter logic than anything else. Without a big guns skill, what other skill would be more appropriate than the one that controls the most prominent incendiary weapons?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm fire is now EW........
Okay, how about this: When you load incendiary ammo into a weapon they become an Energy Weapon.
...What?

True - fire as an energy weapon sounds a little iffy, but it is what it is.

Truth is, fire being tied exclusively to explosives would make equal, if not more, sense. Regrettably, this is not the case. Times like these, I sort of miss "Big Guns". Shooting a minigun is not the same as shooting a silenced .22. Likewise, a flamer is not a laser pistol.

I doubt it was overlooked, there are a number of other perks that have a skill requirement but little actual impact on that skill. In addition to Pyromaniac there is Nerd Rage, Hunter, and Entomologist - not many but a few. I would argue that it is the knowledge that you get from Survival that gives you the combat bonuses of Hunter and Entomologist, it is your experience with Science that gives you the combat advantages of Nerd Rage, and likewise it is your knowledge of Explosives that helps with fire-based weaponry.

Most perks have no requirements or very general requirements, many of the rest affect a specific skill and have a requirement in that skill, but a few perks give you bonuses if you're working in multiple areas.


There are a number of perks like Slayer, not just for unarmed or melee but the few skills with a requirement in Guns generally affects weapons associated with other skills as well. I'd argue these perks are a different situation and it's more a matter of balance than anything else.

A character with Melee or Unarmed will have different perks available to them, this not only gives these skills some individuality beyond the weapon selection but it also prevents someone from being a total master of close-quarters combat with a single skill. If you want to truly dominate in this area you need to invest in multiple skills. This prevents a single character from dominating in a large number of areas, you can't utterly master close-quarters combat and ranged combat and max out Science and Lockpick to get everywhere and max out Speech and make out Stealth, etc.

Being able to take Slayer and Ninja, Piercing Strike and Unstoppable Force, Paralyzing Strike and Super Slam - that's a lot of firepower and while it is balanced by the fact that you aren't taking other perks I think it's reasonable that you can't take all of these combinations without points invested in two.

Well, if they were to have created a greater variety of fire-based weapons then maybe we could have had a "Pyro" combat skill.
Would make the most sense really since it actually doesn't fit with any of the three ranged combat skills at the moment.

Concentrated Fire requires both energy and guns skills, Super Slam while it works for unarmed requires melee skill, and piercing strike requires unarmed but effects both close combat styles. Fallout is filled with perks that cross boundaries. Sometimes being a master in one weapon style will require investment in another.

And really energy only has two flame based weapons the flamer and the heavy incinerator. The regular incinerator is just a pathetic knock off of the heavy version.

And unarmed has one.
And Explosives and Guns have zero.
;)

A fair idea. "Fire" damage is an entirely different type of damage - it should warrant an entirely different type of weapon.

@Hungry Donnor: The issue with fire-based weapons is that they simply don't fit anywhere. Energy doesn't explain them, Explosives doesn't explain them, nor did Big Guns adequately explain them in FO3. I see what you mean when you say one's background in Survival could lend towards the Entomologist and Hunter perks, but no skill really lends itself to fire-based weapons. Energy certainly doesn't - but if that's the skill the devs chose to represent the flamer/incinerator set, then I can go with it.

Could think of some right off the bat:
Flare Pistol.
Flamer Pistol. (See the fire pistol from Tactics)
High-Burst Flamer (Basically a better version of the regular flamer but with longer range).
Fire Spit-baller (A rather big rifle (Not to the size of flamer though) which spits mid-range balls of fire in an automatic sense).

There's nothing that's stopping them from letting their creativity flow.
Hmm...
Fallout Series - Fallout 4 Suggestion thread :bolt:

For related skills like melee and unarmed, I understand fully. Even skills like energy and guns make sense, as you're still using pistols, rifles, and the like.

Mixing explosives and energy weapons, though? That's not synergy - it's just arbitrary.

While several things in this game were "overlooked" in development, I don't think this is one of them. In particular, this perk now affects munitions (grenades and .50 cal ammo) where it did not in FO3.

Then it shouldn't belong to any skill.
Would make more sense for it to have a SPECIAL requirement instead.

I noticed there's a few perks like this that get me annoyed. Especially the ones that you need to bump up Melee and Unarmed bumped up just to get the best perks for either playthrough.

I really like these strict perk requirements. IMO it provides better balance.

If I want Piercing Strike for my melee character, for example, I have to put 70 skill points into Unarmed. It makes you really have to think carefully about your choices and make some sacrifices to get the best perks.

Don't forget the incendiary 40mm/25mm grenades.

Regrettably, there's no incendiary 25mm grenade - you're thinking of high explosive, which just boosts area of effect.

@BootySweat: I don't think these obtuse perk requirements provide any sense of balance. Insteading of spamming skill points into one skill, you're doing it to another. There's really no planning process if you already know the perk's requirement. The only difference is that you're putting points into a skill you may or may not plan on using very often. It's a "sacrifice", sure, but does it make cohesive sense? I'm not asking for the game to go easy on me - I'm just asking it to subscribe to some sense of logic. I have very few complaints about this game...but, this just happens to be one of them.

Like 99% of the changes made from Fallout 3 it's enforced mediocrity that forces dependence on items that provide bonuses like clothing, chems, and skill magazines. Even though I have 60 in explosives, that really isn't worth a god damned thing for the explosive weapons, I might as well have zero in explosives; it just forces me to cut something else to make the game more frustrating and cause me to have to keep a supply of equipment for the other non-combat or secondary combat skills whenever I want to do something that would've been trivial to accomplish in Fallout 3. It really makes the items shine, yeah; it makes actually playing the game a chore equivalent to restroom maintenance.