I've been modding since Unreal and Quake first came out.. and have been more then happy up until after Fallout 3.. Which is one of my favorites .. mostly due to how you can mod and script anything, and have.. Full open canvas..

I was counting down the days for Skyrim to come out.. but I gotta tell ya.. I just can't get into it.. There is so many really cool things in the game, but the immersion factor has nothing for me.. Just like any game it really needs to be pretty heavily modded to get it the way you want..Mostly due to user preferences and tastes.. And I have no problem with that.. But what they have done with the creation tools, New script and you never really feel like you have full control over your mod like you were able to in the past.. I just really am finding it hard to have any urge at all to continue modding this game..

I guess what I'm trying to say is why would they take such a good system as they had in the past, and revert to something like this .. It has really destroyed modding for me and any enjoyment I used to get from it.. And trust me I've put months into trying to like this system.. I didn't just open the CK once and say heck with this.. I get So much better lighting and realistic immersion from a modded Fallout 3, and thats pretty old .. are we peddling backwards?

This post isn't in anyway meant to bash skyrim .. its a brilliant game .. and I know there are alot of you that enjoy it a great deal.. Its just not for me I guess due to the modding scripting and changes they have switched to..

I really hope they don't do this with the next Fallout... Its really my last hope for Beth games and I gotta say if they used the same kinda development scripting and options as skyrim I know I would not spend a single dime on the game..

Just open it back up and let us modders do what we do best.. We are not dumb and I think have proven that in the past with the prior fallouts and beth games.. We don't need the tools for dummies you tried including in this new system which limits us to do what we need to do..gets in the way and usually breaks things in the process.. instead of spending our modding time trying to learn a failed attempt at recreating the wheel.. Let us just mod like we used to..

At this point I'm extremely disappointed in this beth game.. I've uninstalled Skyrim and its blender, niftools, autodesk and CK .. and will be in search of something new or just go back to modding Fallout 3 "which seems to be a growing trend..".. I just really hope they rethink things for the next Beth game release as far as modding..

~REZ

Yay another one of these threads.

I..wish..there..were..fewer..two-full-stop..ellipses..in..your..post..

They..drove..me..insane..

If you're going to use an ellipsis, it's THREE full-stops, not two...!

Two posts above me are just amazing. Like really.
On topic, as an Xbox player who has never set eyes on a gaming PC, I always imaginaed CK to be just like Halo:Reach forge, but with more power.
Forge made you feel like a God imo, so CK musnt be thatbad.

This needs to be moved here:http://www.gamesas.com/forum/183-skyrim-mods/ or maybe better yet here: http://www.gamesas.com/forum/184-the-creation-kit/

have you tried NOT modding a game right off the bat? Maybe you can get more into doing it if you play the vanilla version of the game and find what is really needed to enjoy it.

ok

How about just playing the game instead of obsessing over how different the modding potential is, I highly enjoy the vanilla game.

So you're going to quit playing because you don't like the way the modding tools are designed?

Think about console users we ain't got no mods.

wait what's your problem again?

Fallout 3, a game that came out 4 years ago and had 4 full years to make more mods for... has more mods?

Or your problem is now that the scripting language (as far as I know, that's the main difference between the other CKs) now actually looks like a solid programming object-based language?

Or that there are no big ultra-realistic graphic mods for Skyrim...


Oh, thanks to the comment in the title your problem is indeed, the scripting language.

Uh... deal with it? It is an actually stronger scripting language. Learn it!

Some people buy games to sit on the couch and play a console. which there is nothing wrong with.

Some people buy and play modded PC games to have more customization.

Some buy games to be mindless trolls on forums. Some like to comment on posts about modding that have never modded before and know nothing about it or its past.

Some buy games because they like to mod. And the users that do all the above usually benefit from it.. Its a strange and funny circle.



You can still do alot with it.. don't get me wrong. But doesn't in my opinion have as much flexibility to do the more complex things we did with other games. or at least without consequence.. And there are many limitations we did not have before. Old system worked fine and people liked it.. But I guess thats a thing of the past. As far as the vanilla game.. guys these games are made to mod.. The developers are very good and I'm sure if they didn't want to leave tasks to the modding community they would and could do it themselves.. but I found the vanilla game to be visually painful. All the possibilities are there just not utilized.


where did you read that? lol.. sound like you have built some great mods with it... which ones are they again? Plus Papyrus is not the only thing I'm talking about "although a big part".. not sure who put that in the header.. Anyone that has spent any good amount of time with the CK knows the limitations I'm referring to ..

I've been game modding for about 13 years and have built software for about 20 .. no stranger to code or positive change..

The only thing I'll agree with you is, that Papyrus is evil incarnate and it needs to die in a fire.

Other than that, I vastly prefer the Creation Kit over the GECK, which is a million times better than the Construction Set.

People have been complaining for a very long time about all of the horrendous limitations of the old system, especially the scripting language.

Morrowind had two separate script enhancing/extending programs (just as Skyrim has ScriptDragon and SKSE) because the limitations were so severe. Skyrim scripting is very different, and the entire CK framework has changed too, but what we have is just a new set of limitations and people will eventually adapt or find ways to remove some of them just as we did for past games. Morrowind was out for quite a while before people like FreshFish and Dave Humphrey had decoded the internals of the scripting system and allowed us to improve on it. Oblivion and Fallout weren't fundamentally that different than Morrowind so tools and techniques were developed much more quickly. Papyrus has many advantages over the old scripting language and the biggest problem is that no one knows how to use it well yet. But we will learn and if necessary develop new tools to overcome the new limitations.

Papyrus is fantastic, albeit a bit... foreboding at first. It just takes some time to get familiar with. I don't doubt at all that future Beth games will, aptly, be using Papyrus and not ObScript (aka Legacy).There's nothing you could do in Fallout that you cannot do with Skyrim. If your script(s) aren't behaving as you want them to, put down your puzzle for a minute, take a deep breath, and come back to it after studying up on whatever your hitch is. Odds are, if you post your scripts here with a description of what you want them to do and where you are having trouble, people will be glad to help. Really, once you get the hang of Papyrus, you'll find it's infinitely more powerful.

What, people hate object based languages?

Like, all professional coding languages there are out there?


Seriously this just sound like a "a different game has a different SDK" complaint...

papyrus has a very steep learning curve, so it is expected that some people may just write it off as "it svcks"

Thanks for the replies .. It actually makes me feel better that there are people out there still enjoying this game.. As I stated .. I'm far from a Beth hater. I've been modding their games for along time.

The more I looked at and worked with papyrus, and I did with High hopes not being closed minded. The more It just seemed like I was jumping thru hoops just to do something I could of done very quickly with the old script. And Its not so much the language.. "which is pretty standard" and anyone that has ever used .net C Sharp or VB can figure out very quickly. But more how it was applied and embedded into the objects and carrying over to the references. One of the main issues I had found is when building a mod after you have other mods with script files installed on your system.. The mod your building can see them and call them. And we do.. But unless there are strict naming conventions "which just doesn't happen" for the script files we don't know they are not vanilla. Also if I'm calling a reference in script the objects script overrides it. Its funny I used to think all the time " I wish the script wasn't embedded in the esm/esp file for access... but now that we have it that way and the mods are pouring in I'm not sure it was such a good idea.. Have I picked apart the CK. No. I downloaded it the day it came out and have been using it almost daily since. and I'm into landscaping pretty heavy, scripting, dialog, packages, weather, NPC gen, animation and not just moving a street sign around. Some of the changes make sense but in most part not seeing the benefit to the major ones.

But anyway this isn't some rant getting mad due to my script not working. this has been an ongoing issue for the past month or so with me. I'm just not finding this new setup enjoyable to mod with. And I would like to think I mod for enjoyment. And If I am spending time that isn't enjoyable learning my way around new roadblocks then I would like to at least think its going to pay off.. And I'm just not feeling that way with this. If people are enjoying modding with this new system and think it will open more windows then great. I just haven't seen any new windows open for myself or any mods out there yet. What can skyrim do that the old Geck and its script couldn't? "I have never not been able to do something I wanted to do in script with the old system" and if you find something was it really worth all this? or the loss of old talent jumping ship? Which you have to admit IS Happening. nevermind working around forced updates and such, the rug gets pulled out from under you alot..but I won't get into that.

I had stopped modding for Skyrim for the simple fact of not enjoying it, no matter how hard I tried to. Not that I couldn't do something and got irritated. Being able to do something and Having fun doing something are two different things. So I just really don't have the need anymore for it or its tools.. I also have to disagree on being able to do anything in CK we could in Geck, And I've done just about everything that could be done with Geck many more times then once. I'm a big fan of Beth games and this post was more in hopes of voicing my opinion for future game releases. If you have played skyrim, oblivion, fallout or Unreal then chances are you have had a couple of my mods in your load order or game folder under one name or another.. I have always enjoyed modding beth games. As I probably already know this will be the direction new beth games are going just means its a sad day for me.. I was really looking forward to modding the next fallout. and actually kinda suprised nobody else feels this way.

But thanks for the constructive feedback from a couple of you and good luck to you. I'm just moving on to new things..

My experience with the forge is limited, but basically the forge is a tricycle, and the CK is a space shuttle. The forge is a small modular toolkit, whereas the CK (minus a few things) is the devkit used to build the actual game.