So after a random thought struck me, I came to realize something. If I recall right, there was alot of semi-hype pre-release over the BoS and how they said 'You could go the whole game without ever finding the Brotherhood of Steels bunker.' And yet they seem essential to visit in every storyline arch.

Don't believe the hype.

NEVER believe the hype.

*Remembers the dissapointment of no Mojave Express side missions when I got New Vegas*

I did actually think about this. I recall it being say that there's a good chance that you wouldn't even find the Brotherhood of Steel in your first playthrough, and yet not only is it part of the main quest, there are also side quests which involve the Brotherhood and pretty much lead you right to said bunker (ED-E My Love, for example.) Also, I recall getting a map marker for the location of their bunker from somewhere, so even if I hadn't gotten a quest to see them, I could potentially have just gotten bored and went to explore the place, or got curious about it because Mr. New Vegas talks about it.

Now, I'm not really bothered by the fact that the Brotherhood has a part, even a small one, to play in the main quest. They've been in the series from the start, after all, and while it might not have been strictly necessary to help them in the main quests of Fallout 1 and 2, I seem to recall that at least some main story options would lead you to them. I figure it's not unreasonable that they have SOME real involvement in the game. It just strikes me as a little odd that they said what they did about them when in reality, encountering them was pretty much unavoidable, then again, I don't recall if it was an official source that said that you could potentially play through the game without ever finding the Brotherhood, I do know I heard it from fans, so maybe someone just misinterpreted it to mean that they didn't play a part in the main quest, when in reality they were just a minor faction.

Although, unlike in Fallout 3, you don't necessarily have to help them. You might inevitably find their bunker, but actually doing quests for them is something it seems you can avoid.

Maybe they got the BoS confused with the Enclave? :shrug:

Yeah, maybe. With the Enclave Remnants, you could utterly miss them no matter how many times you play.

Hmm, I just found a (the?) brotherhood bunker. There were no warning signs outside. I enter the first, seemingly abandoned room when three strangers with big armors and weapons approach me. They order me to give them ALL my stuff, even my clothes. I take the most reasonable of the possible replies and try to reason with them. Their response: comply or die. I refuse to just hand over all my things to these strangers (seems like common sense in the fallout world one would think) which immediately makes me VILIFIED by them. They attack me and when I defend myself I lose karma.

I thought finding the Brotherhood was pretty easy too - still haven't come across the Enclave though...

Are there any Enclave in the game?

I found the remnants bunker by random exploration. Didn't look inside, though.



My common sense would say "don't try to fight three power armored soldier on their home turf" The karma system is completely non-sensical in the game, During the final mission (House version) i gained karma for killing enemies, so how am i supposed to see the neutral or evil version? Not that it matters, the game crashes everytime the ending slideshow starts :brokencomputer:

Seriously are there enclave in the game? I thought they didn't appear in the mojave wasteland. It'd be cool to see em.

OHHHH yeah.

They have dead Enclave, And Alive Enclave.

Even a *spoiler*







Vertibird. *Endspoiler*

Just look closey and you can find em.

LOL suddenly at level 19 I started receiving karma for killing ghouls!

Karma svcks.

Thats it, It's [censored] hard to stay Neutral the ENTIRE game. :thumbsdown:

Karma is massively unbalanced. The values in the GECK are as follows:
Killing Very Good- minus 100.
Killing Good- minus 50.
Killing Evil- plus 100.
Killing Very evil- plus TWO.
You only lose five Karma for stealing, and I can't even find a value for cannibalism.

So cleaning out someone's house can be completely redeemed by popping ONE feral ghoul.

If anyone wants to tweak their settings, here's how you do it.
Start up the GECK, choose the FalloutNV.esm as the active file, open the 'Gameplay' menu, click 'settings'.
In the window that opens, Type in 'Karma' for the filter, then run down the list to fKarmaModKilling**** or fKarmaModMurdering**** and set the values as you please.
Save your new mod and you're done.

Actually I played about 50hours before discovering the BoS Bunker, and I only discovered it then because I was doing Yes Man "meet faction X" quests without knowing that was part of the main story....I though House was the main story to begin with. I was convinced when I was visiting the Great Khans on the way to the marker I was going to find the Brotherhood Bunker there instead on the edge of the map.

I'm on my 3rd playthrough, first time through I did quite a bit of extensive searching and STILL haven't found the Remnants. I agree, though, that the BoS are very hard to avoid. There are at least a dozen things in the game that point you right to them, even if you don't happen to find the bunker straight away.

I know I could just look up where the Remnants are, but I want to find them on my own. I'm sure there are a lot of things in the game that I haven't found yet.

I stumbled across Hidden Valley, at night, within my first couple hours of playing the game. Of course, fighting off tons of scorpions by myself with a varmint rifle and in the middle of a sandstorm, made sure I didn't go back any time soon after.

Thats how I know I'm at hidden valley, seeing a bunch of peach colored scorpions :laugh:

For those of you wanting to play with the Enclave.

If you just want their power armor

I didn't like how it just shows you where to go to find the bunker. It's supposed to be a secret and when you get any quests to go there your map basically says "Hey man! They're right here! No need to actually search for it!"

SPOILER

Well, no and yes. There are the Enclave Remnants but they are not actually part of the Enclave, they are former members. Arcade Gannon. Thats all I'll tell you about them, get him as a companion.

Also, I like the fact that all the people in the Enclave Remnants actually seemed like human beings with personalities, rather than in 3, where they were more like a machine.