This is a topic to discuss things like the new Skill Tree/Perk system might fit with some classes that people like to play, most specifically; Monk.

Prior to Skyrim, we had Hand-to-Hand skills.

In Skyrim, we have a Perk in Heavy Armor that bolsters Hand-to-Hand.

However, in Skyrim Hand-to-Hand is limited to a very small amount of mini brawls...


So, today's discussion is the various ways, through gear, skills, etc, how Monks could have been (and might be in the future) better represented.

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First and foremost, bring back the Hand-to-Hand skill and give it Perks.

"What kind of Perks?"

Things as simple as "Dragon's Fist" that adds 10 Fire Damage to unarmed would suffice.

How about, if unarmed, a backwards Power Attack was a spinning backfist, or a spin kick.

Or, adding a bit more "chi" abilities (that use Stamina or Magicka).

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Second, more equipment.

Like Staves (not magical ones we have now).

Or "specialized" gauntlets.

Or y'know... a blind fold.

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Third (and final for now)...

Dare I suggest a Monk... faction?

Discuss.

It sounds like Ryu teaching the Blind Monks of the Ancestor Moths

....ok

How would a perk add fire damage? I could onlt see that working if there were fist based weapons.

Pretty simply...

Select the Perk.

Unarmed attacks now add Fire Damage.

i would dload this in a second if it was a mod.

As would I.

Punching forward for discussion.

Would only dig it if it was lore-accurate. Stuff like "chi" would be very out of place in TES. Maybe a mod that expands on the various Khajiiti hand-to-hand techniques. Generally a good idea and there are a few rough mods on the Nexus that expand on it already.

What is the lore regarding Monks in TES, exactly?

Some cool destruction spells should add elemental damage to your fists. How cool would it be to have a flame cloak and punch people with flaming fists? Pretty freaking cool indeed.
Aww I wish I had a pc to run this game. That would be an awesome mod. Or official plug in or dlc.

Well we know the Khajiit practiced a martial art known as "Falling Sand" or something, from Morrowind.

We hear mention of another Khajiit monk that practiced a martial art known as the "Whispering Fang" style in Skyrim.

When I first heard about Skyrim I hoped for a martial art based combat mechanic. The sad part is there are already finishing moves for unarmed. We were so close, just a few tweaks, a perk tree, and a few animations, and boom, awesomeness. Hell, the Khajiit could have been trainers/quest givers, instead of joke merchants as they are now. I can see it...RD: "How would your monk kung-fu dude kill with one hit, like I can with a dagger...you know a real weapon?!" Me: "The Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique, my friend, the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique...of the Whispering Fang style" RD: "whooooaaaa"

Some Perk Ideas: (May sound Cliche)

-Hidden Tiger - 50% chance to slow time during an enemy power attack
-Falling Sun - +25% damage and 10 fire damage if enemy is struck during Hidden Tiger slow time
-Still Moon - Hold attack, release during enemy strike to deflect blow (-75% damage) and counter with a fast strike at -10% damage, 50% to stagger
-Dragon's Fury - Double power attack after regular power attack, two kicks and two punches, that deal 5% extra damage with each strike and causes 15% of enemies health to bleed out over 10sec with a 75% chance to stagger
-One with the Voice - Reset shout cool down once per day. Shouts can be used mid strike.

I dunno, some ideas off the top of my head. May be too overpowered, but with unarmed damage now, I don't think so.

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask. There was a topic on the subject in the lore forums recently though. Would track it down for ya if I had the time.

I don't know much official, but most seem to be more Western Catholic in their isolationist basis for most orders... I mean, I don't recall any monastic orders in the games I have played, being based in cities or something, most are up in the mountains. Even the dudes on High Hrothgar, who are monky in a way, point to more hermit-like groups.

That said, some of the orders are awfully militaristic (Blind monks in Oblivion for example).


That aside: I love this idea. At the very least, unarmed weapons would be a benefit... brass knuckles, bladed gauntlets, fake claws... all of these things could allow us to boost our damage with hand to hand.

Also, the idea of Chi, which is the basis of the power for DnD monks, isn't necessary as much. There are plenty of martial arts that don't believe in mystical powers. I mean, some of the more violent arts are just designed around disabling your opponent as quickly as possible.

Maybe, not as much a boost to damage as paralysis, or bleeding damage, slowing targets... stuff that really breaks your opponents down rather than increases the damage up beyond 9000.

Talk amongst yourselves.

I like Unarmed. I think that perk like stamina-to-health exchange would be useful.

i agree about brining a hand-to-hand perk tree but i strongly disagree with it using ''chi'' or any such system leave it attached to stamina how it is, and i also would hate to see ''dragon fist and spin kicks'' although it could fit nicely with the Khajiits martial arts.

i would say have simple things like;

a dual-charged power attack with fists will paralyze someone for 2 seconds.

a single duel charged attack with a fist will simply be a strong attack, like that with swords etc.

a running power attack with a single hand charge gives you a jump and you come down hard on his head, increasing its power.

blocking: by pressing block at the right time you can catch someones sword/axe/dagger/mace relieve them of it and then proceed to attack them with there own weapon with increased damage for 3 seconds.

i dunno there just off the top of my head, make it gritty fighting, none of this Ryu's ''Haduuken'' crud.

shame they took out h2h skill as perks for it like disarm, elemental fists and paralysing touch would have been cool, but as thats a no go just removing/raising the cap on h2h damage would do, add in a few more enchantments for gloves like elemental damage and you could make a good h2h character.
Edit: adding some touch and punch spells could also give the monk character more freedom with out needing a h2h skill also shouts like elemtal fury working when youve got your fists out would be nice.

It's sad Monk was a standard class in OB and now is all but eliminated.

Op instead of Chi the best integration of abilities like you describe into TES is Alteration magic. If you can cast a flesh spell to give you magic armor why couldn't there be alterations spells to enhance hand to hand damage? I imagine a line of spells paralleling the flesh spells starting with OakFist and ending with DragonFist.

I was meaning Chi to be somewhat like this. For a Skill tree, you'd had a "magical" path and a more straight forward physical path. There wouldn't be any extra resource as the "magical" or "Chi" moves would use Magicka and simply would be more mage-like monk abilities, like hardened skin or things of that nature.

chance to stagger opponent, faster punches (regular and power), the decapitation animation (or assassination finisher) can be replaced with cervical dislocation, crit hits... i can keep naming possible perks.

The blind fold idea is cool. could go hand-in-hand with the chi idea.

I'd personally like to see at least one perk regarding stamina maintenence

I would like a Perk that gives you a % bonus to Stamina or Stamina Regen based on either the amount of Health you have, the amount of Magicka you have, or even for the lack of Armor you have.

Would be a fairly cool way to balance out if you wanted to do a full Physical and Chi (Magical) Monk if it was linked to Armor or Magicka.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Master_Zoaraym%27s_Tale

A book describing some of the martial art techniques taught in Elseweyr - nothing specific, but interesting.

Great story, thanks! I read that a long time ago, but had forgotten about it. IMO, these are the kinds of books that get people into the lore.

I don't think 'chi' is horrible to have in TES--there are already katanas and dai-katanas, among other things--but the mechanic would make the most sense drawing from stamina, so I think that's the place for it. Allow blocks and power-attacks to draw from stamina, with more advanced attacks requiring more stamina.

Fist weapons have already been added by modders, so that's a requirement. IMO, fist and foot strikes, staffs, and fist weapons are the minimum for a decent class. Plus a skill and perk tree, obviously. Foot strikes are slower, but have more reach and damage. Both types of strikes would ideally have fast and slow modes in addition to power attacks. So you equip a fast or slow mode to each hand and foot, and hold longer to do power attacks. (Not sure about the controls for foot strikes, but I think it would be possible.) An alternative would be equiping both hands in one slot, and both feet in the other, and have an animation that handles alternating in a reasonable way.

Of course, a decent monk needs to be able to dodge, which isn't really supported in the game, but would be a good mechanic for all classes (armor reduces dodge speed, heavier armor more). Monks should have some kind of "Iron Skin" perk to increase armor, though IMO it should be less effective than light armor.

With this plus some of the other ideas mentioned, it would be a required playthrough, IMO.