Playing a Dunmer mage now after playing a Nord warrior to level 30. I found that my Nord warrior (sneak, light armor, one handed weapons, block, archery) is much, much weaker. Sure she's got more HP and stamina and lasts longer in melee combat with strong enemies, but a Draugr Deathlord would wipe her out in mere seconds. My mage (Confuration, destruction, restoration, sneak, one handed, light armor) with only 200 HP and a [censored]load of magicka can take on three deathlords at range without even breaking a sweat.

Ok, I AM using the "blaanced magic" mod at adept level. Is this mod so overpowered? I tought it wouldn't, but seriously the game is a breeze. The only enemies that bother me are high level mages. also any idiot I can sneak up on gets the 30x 50 dagger damage. (WTF?) I guess some things are broken, but damn. I haven't even started on the summons. A Dremora Lord can take on two death lords by itself!! Can't imagine what happens when I hit 100 conjuration for that dual summoning perk.

You have 54 posts all in general discussion - so just have this discussion with yourself b/c I'm sure you've read numerous threads on it.... why you would start another one is beyond me.

Your using a mod that makes magic more powerful......and you are suprised the magic is easy?

First, you're using a mod. Second, I'm of the opinion that mages can do well, they just need more planning than "hit it 'til it dies", like a sword and board warrior.

Could you have done just as well without the mod? Possibly; since I was just as successful using illusion, conjuration, and restoration to give my mage a numerical advantage in almost every fight.

Ranged attacks and not getting hit are good ways to stay alive, yes.

Balance magic mod makes a big difference to the effectiveness of magic imo, not overpowered, but certainly stronger.

Melee is far more dangerous at low skill/gear levels as you pretty much have to take damage, but once you have decent armour and shield skills you will take little damage from other melee.
I could play with any deathlord indefinitely with a good use of sword & board on expert, there is simply no way it could kill me in melee.
The ones with Ebony bows though, they tend to one/two-shot everyone!

Balanced Magic mod...

Balanced_Magic_Adept.esp - 60% combat magicka regen, 2.6x dual cast damage, 2.4x dual cast cost, -51% spell cost at skill level 100
Vanilla Settings - 33% combat regen, 2.2x dual cast damage, 2.8x dual cast cost, -40% spell cost at skill level 100

People complain about mages having not enough mana on higher levels. Your mana regenerates twice as fast as in vanilla game.
When dualcasting, in vanilla the mana cost rise is greater than the rise in damage. With the mod, it's the other way round.
Destruction spells scale.

Try a destruction mage in vanilla. A pure mage, no armor and backstabbing. Then come back and complain.

Yes, I'm using the mod, because when I was on this board a while back all I read was how weak magic was and I really wanted to enjoy playing the game so I looked for one that didn't seem to overpower the character. Now all I need to do is cast some wall of x magic and run circles around melee characters.

I agree on the Ebony bow, but with the impact destruction perk you can basically stun lock them. I think stunlocking at range is a far more effective method than stunlocking in melee (which costs stamina mind you), because you have to be near your enemy which essentially limits where you're walking. A mage can walk anywhere. And if they do get in melee range they still need to best the 600 armor points my mage has.

I raised this question because of the multitude of other posts saying magic is weak. I also didn't feel like resurrecting an old post. This board has so many posts per minute each new topic is on page 2 after about 15 minutes.

Guess I should play without the mod to give the enemies a fair chance.

Really?
It seems you are just trolling(bragging?).
If you find it so easy then don't use the mod and/or play game on a higher difficulty level.

That 30% does nothing when you look at all the enchantments you can have on your equipment later in the game. Even restoration gives 50% extra regen. I play a sneak mage, because I selected a dunmer, which is basically that. Besides I wasn't complaining. You are complaining. What you're saying is "don't use skills to make your character more effective and see how that works!". The game doesn't use classes, but if you truly wanted to go there, sure an armorless vanilla mage that can't figure out which end of the blade goes into the enemy is weaker. Yup.

Magic is considered weak *when compared to melee/archery* in the unmodded game because it didn't scale properly with gear/skill.

The Balanced Magic mod makes it scale, that is the primary purpose of the mod, so that issue is resolved by it.

I wouldn't play without it, the default magicka system is not good, hence all the complaint threads!

No I was looking for people without a stick up there [censored] to explain to me if I'm "doing it wrong". It's not bragging, I'm using examples to state that the game (yea with the mod) is too easy. Which was confusing me, since the multitude of posts complaining about magic being weak.

I found the game much harder with a melee character. Still that was my first character and I didn't abuse the enchanting/smithing as much as I did with my mage. Even as a mage, smithing was the first tree I got to 100. Maybe I should fiddle around more with melee and vanilla mages to see what it's all about.

Yeah my first play through was melee, being used to TES games I put it on Expert from the start, but got my ass handed to me a lot to start off!
Was fun though, and lets not forget it's not an MMO, the only thing that matters is whether a certain skill/gameplay style/difficuly setting is fun and rewarding for you, what other people think doesn't matter as long as you enjoy it.

I had no reason to assume you're using enchantement. You didn't mention it in your first post and not everybody goes for the zero mana cost. Anyway, it's a long way before you're able to enchant your gear with -100% mana cost, unless you're grinding.

You say mages are overpowered. They're not. They have three sources of damage: Destruction, Conjuration and Frenzy (or whatever that spell is called, I'm not sure, I don't use it). Destruction is broken due to no scaling, Conjuration is very powerful only when you're able to control two Dremora Lords, and you have to max out Illusion to make it overpowered. Generally, melee damage is higher and easier to deal than magic damage. A fact.

Now, the whole problem with magic in Skyrim is that's considered weak COMPARED to melee/archery. Playing a pure mage is more difficult than playing a pure warrior. A fact. What you're playing isn't a pure mage, therefore all issues associated with magic being underpower don't apply to you. What might interest you is that Sneak in fact in overpowered. But it has nothing to do with magic.

What you've observed is that a character using both magic and melee is more powerful than a character using only melee. Why would that surprise you? It's always been this way. That's why Battlemages are beasts in almost every game you'll play.

I'm not saying "Don't use skills that make you effective". All I'm saying is: "When you make a statement about mages, please play a mage first."
When comparing magic to melee, we're using typical builds: warrior that doesn't spam fireballs, mage that doesn't backstab people. One-handed and Light Amor are not in a mage's skillset. A fact. You're playing a mixed build, so you shouldn't write about magic builds.


I've played an archer, a dual-wielder and a pure mage. The mage was the most difficult of them. Places that my archer cleared with barely any effort, my mage struggled with. Even after I installed Better Magic mod, I still feel my mage is less powerful than the rest of my characters. I imagine it will stay this way until I max out Conjuration and have two summons tank for me.

Guess I should play the pure mage for once. Although my character really isn't a full melee character, the dragon armor really overpowers him. And yeah, sneaking is overpowered a lot. True. I don't know what a two handed weapon can do with a power attack, but my sneak attacks deal 1500 base damage without enchantments. That together with the right perks (also being a vampire adds to it) you can sneak up to someone in plain site and kill them.

HAH! No, magic is certainly NOT overpowered(atleast not vanilla)... If anything it is underpowered..

I don't know. Being able to zap things at a distance and casting wall of lightning as you're running circles around your enemy makes it pretty strong. even if the damage output is lower it's still better than actually getting hit yourself.

''I don't know'' Exactly, you don't know.. There is several topics here on the forums that explain why magic is [censored] in Skyrim..
You HAVE to kite the enemy for like 20 minutes(not really but a long time) and the spells doesnt level with you, for example you cant use yout lvl 1 spells and when you are a high level because they do almost no damage at all, and that makes you dependant on your master level spells when you are a really high level.. And the master destruction spells svck!
They take WAY to long to cast and makes you stop..
Magic is ruined and they need to fix it..

Not counting for Enchanting which is completely broken, melee and magic are about equal.

You installed a mod that buffs magic.

Draw your own conclusions.

And then there were posts that Magic is weak... so ironic...

Magic is not underpowered, Conjuration and Illusion are pretty powerful for example. Destruction however is on the higher difficulties, unless you enchant broken 0 magicka cost equipment

I play mage on master level - no mods at all, resist ench on boots extra megicka on gloves.

i did not spend one point in illusion so far as i am focus in conj - destru, the game so far balace, i enjoy it very much.
when i am runing low on mana i use my staff.
i say this becouse you can play normal and you dont need to downloading crazy mods that destroy game balance to enjoy it.
mages are NOT underpower, and not realy overpower, just RP each story (mage, rogue, warrior) and enjoy the game.

Thanks. I'd add illusion to that build though so you can be invisible while you regenerate mana. I'll finish the game with my dunmer character and then try the other playing styles (without mods or whatever feels best)

Are you serious right now? Try it without the mod. That mod makes magick rediculously powerful, I was using the Master version of that mod a while back and I had to stop using it because it made me TOO powerful, and I play on Expert.

Yeah that was basically my question, but so far people are quite opposite in their answers. My guess was that it was too powerful as well. If they ever fix it, it should not resemble that mod. I'll remove the mod and play without it to see what happens.