I was just wondering if anyone had ever thought of having a magic type sneak attack multiplier? I think it would be very cool and makes just about as much sense as a bow.

It /shouldn't be anything too crazy; maybe 2x or 2.5x since it shouldn't be AS effective as the bow.

Also I don't think it should have a perk but maybe you guys do? Let me know! I'm just looking to give my Nightblade a little incentive to use his destro magic while he's still hidden.

I don't think it makes as much sense as a bow...

Why not? Isn't the idea that you get a surprise attack off on the enemy, causing a critical strike? I understand that a bow is more sneaky than hurling balls of fire at your enemy, but without quiet casting perk you're usually caught immediately after the first cast anyway.

I personally think it would be a great idea, Destruction is weak right now anyway.

This would be a good idea imo! Magic could use more synergy with Stealth. It's rather unfortunate that melee/ranged get the advantage of critical strikes, and they are the most powerful killing methods on top of that

I thought since casting ranged spells will probably not be so stealthy they could add touch spells again. That way you can risk sneaking up to something and damaging them with a stealth magic attack with these quiet touch spells. I think this would balance out the stealth and magic system a little bit as you will have to risk getting close to get the bonus damage. So you have the choice at either attacking them from range and being safe or going in close for the stealth attack damage but risk getting killed up so close.

I also thought to make those brawling battles in Skyrim more fun for magic users, they could cast some sort of touch spell/buff on their hands so that they do extra elemental damage haha. But I bet Nords and other fist fighters would call this cheating.

I never used touch spells in Oblivion as I didn't see the use when I could use ranged spells instead. But if they had extra stealth purposes it could make them more useful. Maybe even have stealth touch finishers where you burn/freeze/electricute them from the inside or something.

I've got one.

I did it as Dunmer as a race are attached to assassin lore. They are also the expert at destruction so I thought I'd try building a character combining the two. Interestingly the DB robes have enhanced destruction. I have decided to go with light armor though as I thought it suits Dunmer better.

I try to set runes as a trap to kill the target. I also heavily rely on illusion magic (muffle & invisible) as a support for destruction. I try do not use weapons at all.

I also find that ice bolts seem seem more stealthy over fire & shock magic.

There is a mod that does this:

"nightblade spellcasting" or something like that.

It adds a modest 1.5x multiplier. Works with runes.

I use/love it. With silent casting it works well.

My main character is a sneak archer, and my latest one is a pure mage. While I can justify an increase in damage on sneak archery, I just can't see it for sneak spellcasting. With sneak archery, I look at it as though the baddies are leaving themselves more exposed (their vital spots are more easily reached when they don't have their guard up, that is). Magic is a completely different type of attack - it doesn't matter where you hit them, as long as you hit them. That alone doesn't justify a sneak bonus, IMO.

Yes I agree with your point, but I still see it as a surprise factor. So since it only matters that you hit them, why not make it 1.5-2 multiplier? Therefore it won't be super OP bit still makes sense, just not quite as effective with a bow.

100% approval/agreement. Unfortunately I am not a developer...

I'm playing a similar character now. I sometimes switch out of the DB armor into the DB robes for the destruction boost. I tend to use shock magic over fire or ice because I like the idea of a bolt of lightning from the shadows. A "bolt from the blue" so to speak.
This is also the first character to use illusion magic to any extent. I like it.

The only way to do a magic sneak attack is with the illusion perk that makes magic cast silently

What? I'm saying there should be a sneak bonus like with weapons but not as strong. Most people understand that there is a perk to silently cast spells.

I'm not a developer either but I'm glad someone likes my idea haha.

normal magic should not do sneakdmg, but i think the illusion perk for silent magic should unlock magical sneakdmg

If an arrow did different damage depending on where it hit you wouldn't be able to one shot kill with an arrow in the arm or leg so your argument is invalid on that score. It doesn't matter where you hit them with an arrow either as far as this game goes, but Archers still get a stealth bonus where magic users don't.

With stealth, you have more time to make a proper aim and therefore do more damage. This is the theory behind the stealth bonus.
Put magic aside for the moment and consider ice bolt for what it really is: A pointed icicle travelling at high speed. If I hit you in the leg with it, it would do quite a lot of damage and hurt like hell but it would be unlikely to kill you. If I hit you in the face or full in the chest, It would be unlikely that you'd survive.

So in reality, what is the difference between an ice bolt and an arrow?
Fire bolt = Pointed stick on fire.
Shock bolt = Pointed Tesla coil.

Ergo, why shouldn't these have a bonus for stealth? They can still be aimed at more vital spots in stealth than they could if the enemy was aware and able to dodge.

Definitely. It should be a perk in the sneak-tree, multiplier for 2x damage.

I actually really like your idea as well. It makes sense and is pretty balanced. With that being said, would it work like charged spells (chain lightning, fireball, icy spear etc.) where you hold the trigger down and release or like the flames/frostbite/sparks spells when you pull the trigger it goes off instantly? Because then it would be great for incorporating in normal combat since you don't have to charge it up.

Anyway, I like the idea a lot!

Well for me I always viewed the bow/dagger multipliers as a means to offset the lack of locational damage. What I mean is that by sneaking up on someone with a dagger without being detected you can put that dagger in a kill spot, i.e across their throat. Same with a bow, its not so much you catching the person unaware you are just able to put the arrow in a kill spot. So with that interpretation I don't see a sneak multiplier for magic really making sense. Either you hit a person with a lighting spell or you don't. Just my thoughts.


I find otherways to use sneaky magic. I like to use the invisibilty spell, sneak into a room with multiple enemies, drink a powerful fortify destruction potion and cast a fire storm spell destroying everyone around.

It occurred to me that the animations for a touch based sneak kill could be amazing. Grab around the neck and pull them back (like the throat slit animation) and drive an icicle through their back and out their chest. Place your hands on their shoulders and their body collapses into an ash pile (similar to Fallout). You get the idea...

I don't know. Maybe you can hold the spell down and it charges it causing it to be more powerful but you can also quickly tap to do a fast spell attack.

I also thought the touch spells could attack more like creating melee fireball in the hand/hands and hitting them with it (I don't know if this would be stealthy) or if you actually charged your hands with magical energy and then physically hit/touched them. It would be cool if the spell was like a fire/ice/lightning ball or something in your hand and if you hold the button and it charges it causing the ball to get bigger. Or maybe if touch spells were used by your hand with a magical energy touch your hand/hands would glow in the element and if you charge it the hand glows brighter or something.

Maybe have both styles or maybe something even different to both of these.

There should definitely be something like this, though less effective than the more silent bow or dagger.

Exactly, it's more to give destruction a little boost since it isn't as powerful as the bow/dagger out of sneak, but I definitely think it could diversify mages a little more (not that we can't use sneak-destruction as-is, just gives more of an incentive).

And like you said, it shouldn't be as much of a multiplier as sword/bow; maybe around 2x.

Would be nice if it had 2x multiplier unless you unlock the dual cast perk, at which point it increases the multiplier rather than the base damage.

I tried to do this in the CK...don't think it's possible through perk creating..maybe I'll try again tommorow.