ok, so im doing the "cornered rat" quest, where im supposed to find esbern... and i have to talk to this scum in riften, i cant figure out how to get him to tell me where esbern is without being forced into his scheme to make brand-shei look like a thief!

i went along with it, and did it flawlessly, but i still have a save back before i talked to him about it... so is there any way i can avoid it?

i used my amulet of dibella and masque of clavicus vile to boost my speech to 59, but even with it that high, i fail everytime i try persuading him... im getting sick of reloading and trying again.

is it just impossible to persuade him unless my speech is exceedingly high, and i have several perks in speech, or what?

im not playing a thief, my character is blunt and honest, a hero, but brutal in a fight... he's not supposed to be some sneaky crook harming innocent people's good names.

now, if brand-shei himself is a bad person... then i can let this go, but he doesnt seem like a bad guy to me... can someone tell me whether he is an innocent person or not?

of course, i'd like to know if i can get my information without going through with his scheme, too...

Go straight to the bartender at The Bee and Barb.

Nobody said saving the world was going to be easy and clean.

I didn't talk to anyone in Riften. Delphine said . . .

thank you!

glad they made it possible to do it without being a criminal or a silver-tongued master of persuasion.

The unlock the box and remove and plant the ring quest is the start of the joining the Thieves guild quest line.


He finds you anyway now matter what you do (woke up in the hotel once and he was stood there), all you have to do is exit the chat and he says he can take the hint.

You cant avoid the appearance of either the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood. Big problem for me as I can imagine the other guilds being quite well known of and spoken of but you cant miss them.

Even Conan the Barbarian was a thief.