It's the same reason that the Cowboys always disappoint... just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it'll always work. We can all sit here and be "arm chair quarterbacks" but until we'll all just be talking out of out butts until we actually experience the development cycle.

Yep 5 people on the Dev team who used their brains and this would be the greatest game of all time

Only true if other games are also as restricted.

Sure a better combat system might be a big ask but better loot, bosses, etc is pretty simple to implement.

Want proof?Mods.

If the community can address such issues in their spare time there is really no excuse for complacency from paid developers.Games like KoA are really highlighting that such expectations actually have merit.The whole "but making a huge open world game means they have to skip on some aspects" mentality is slowly losing relevance and justification.

Rockstar nailed this concept years ago.

Okay... and KoA also uses a much simpler art style. I know people say "graphics aren't everything" but texturing a game takes a long time. Also they're (to my knowledge) two different engines. It's like saying "Why can't CoD have destructible buildings" when they use two totally different engines.

I agree. That's part of the reason I believe Morrowind turned out the way it did. Desperation, one final push. Bethesda at this point, is a very large and profitable business, and have little motivation to take risks or implement wild ideas.

They have become complacent if Skyrim is any indication. They have carved out a niche in open world game design, and do not feel that that niche is threatened. What they need most in my opinion is competetition, contestation. People tend to do better work, if they are actively pressured and trying to outdo someone else.

OR the cost to develop the game, create advertising, merchandise, and shipping is high enough that taking a huge risk isn't probable. This isn't them being shackled because they're "lazy" it's them being shackled because they need a return on their investment.

Fair point.

It's a topic that cannot really be over-simplified and I get your point.An example of my contention is Bethesda now has a solid reputation of releasing amazing open world games with sub-par combat mechanics.

It's now a trend when other developers have already tackled and overcome such issues yet most gamers know before they even purchase the game "It's Bethesda....this game will be awesome....but the combat will be average."

To me that's an issue and the "but the game is so big and so pretty" is not an excuse to skip or overlook such trends, especially when other similar games have no such issues.As such using the engine involved as an excuse seems largely redundant, especially when the modding community is often able to address such issues in their own time, for free.

You just proved my point. They felt so confident in their ability to sell the game, that they threw vast sums of money into marketing, even spending it on frivolous things to show off (GIANT replica of Alduin and Alduin's wall, bronze life size Dovahkiin statues etc), likely taking away from funds that could have been spent purely on development.

This idea that "A modder did it so why couldn't Bethesda" is silly. The modder is already given a "completed" game, they don't have to spend time texturing the game, or building the mechanics. The modders are using code that Bethesda has already created, and in a way is merely taking the game one step further. It's like modding a car. You already have everything assembled, you're just tweaking it.


If there was a point where a company never had to advertise again then I'd like to know about it. Even companies like dorritos, or games like CoD have advertising. There are over 5 billion people on this planet (You could argue that only maybe 1 billion matter as the other 4 billion may not have access to the luxuries that we do) and Skyrim has sold 5 million copies? There are another 5 million potential games who could buy Skyrim if they only knew about it.

Its sold more like 10 million+ or so I believe. And I never said anything about no marketing, so much as frivolous use of marketing.

I guess I don't see how the marketing never served a purpose.

Sorry but that makes no sense to me.

So they finish coding the game and immediately release it?I don't think so.They have lots of time to tweak and make additions to the final game and coding, probably a lot more access than any modder will ever have, and yet the modding community is seemingly able to fix such issues with the restrictions of a creation kit.

As such I still don't see that as an excuse for complacency.

Uh...the modders fixed many things WITHOUT the creation kit and they did a lot of the fixes in a few days then just had to update them as BGS "patched" the game.

BGS hardly optimized the game for PC at all. Which is downright sad considering the sales from the PC version.

I like constructive criticism..well written sit..a few people on these forums could learn from you

Agreed but that kind of reinforces my point.

That was my intention.

You're missing the point. Modders don't have to build (or tweak) the engine, create the world (including story, characters, quests), texture the world, animate, code, and script everything. The pieces are almost always in place for the modders. That's what I'm arguing, yes you could argue that Bethesda could then take time to implement these ideas, but saying "modders did this why can't Bethesda" is really just a terrible argument and it is somewhat offensive to both parties.

As a side Bethesda isn't worried about your wishlist. They're not Santa Clause who brings you toys based upon what you want, which is ultimately why I dislike these arguments that are basically "I want this" or "Jimmy has a better toy... which is basically saying X game has a better feature".


Modders will always find ways to tweak performance, I could give a car example again but I won't. Honestly this is why console gaming is so appealing, the games are almost always optimized and run perfectly. There are very few variables in the hardware which allows for more focused tests.

@FailedtoOpen: All you've shown throughout this thread is your unrelenting fan-boyish attitude. We all get it, you unconditionally love Bethesda and look at simple suggestions to future DLC/Expansions as an affront to their glory. You're missing the point, I made this thread for people to toss around their ideas on how to improve the game-- this wasn't supposed to be a Devil's Advocate playground. Give it a rest.

Anyone have any other ideas?

Here's an idea. >.>

Sigh, I'm a fan boy because I take the side of Bethesda when people makes claims that have a very questionable cause? Or is it because I don't believe adding features from other games would make this a better game? The problems Bethesda should work on is what is here, and what we have. The lack of choice in an open world game that essentially shackles a player. The civil war quest line that runs parallel to each other that works if a player only plays the game once, but fails once the player plays through both sides. The limited scope of the guild, or the lack of consequences.

Skyrim is an open world game, that's what it strives to be. It wants to simulate real life situations as best it can, however the problem is that although the game has the best graphical, and sound ambiance of any game I've played, the small smoke screen those create doesn't do a good enough job of hiding of the artificial brain running behind the scenes. This problem has persisted since open world games came into existence and it still persists. It is what ultimately destroys any sense of immersion and why ultimately games rely on cheap mechanics like boring number games to keep people interested.

So yes I'm a fan boy.

Great. Congratulations. Again-- we get it. Please let people post constructive criticism and ideas. Bethesda doesn't need you rushing to their defense. Had you read my original post, you'd see that I am in love with this game, it's my favorite game in years-- but that doesn't mean it's flawless and it certainly doesn't mean it cannot be improved.

Again, this thread is for suggestions to future DLC and expansions. Ideas.

As the pieces are in place for the developers.

You can't tell me they don't have several months with the Alpha model before release.As such the fact modders can fix simplistic issues in a matter of hours?

The proof is already there, as shown by their last two releases and the impact of the modding community on the game.

Also I don't think the examples given by the OP are in any way a "wishlist" as opposed to simple game mechanics that have just been poorly implemented by Bethesda.They had ample time to address such issues, it's almost as if they plan for the modders to polish off their game, for free.

Number 6 is the biggy in my opinion

And I just gave constructive criticism that focuses on ideas that were not fleshed out, or that lacked in substance. Ideas that hurt the overall experience of an open world game. I said earlier that I agreed with some of your ideas, had I not been getting ready for work I may have even touched upon each one.





There I went back and wrote my opinions on your post.


The last few months are really focused on fine tuning certain things. Adding new ideas would only slow down the development process and allow for less time ironing out bugs, or optimizing. As I said before my point wasn't to argue what Bethesda could have done, because things can sound great on paper, but fail with execution. There are a lot of games that come out with this great idea but ultimately fail. My point was merely to show the immense amount of time it takes for developers to even get to the same stage as modders.

As for ideas being poorly implemented you'd be hard pressed to find a Bethesda game that has ever implemented them before. There are games like Dark Souls and Kingdoms of Amalur that don't have worlds as full realized as Bethesda, or have that long history of lore behind it. I've never gone out and read lore, or peoples interpretations of lore until TES, that to me is somewhat amazing.

Agree with the TS by all points! Especially questing and guild system need to be changed.