I like to explore to the end of the map, but how games deal with the practical necessity that you can't go any further is variable.

I don't mind:

• Plot barriers, such as the fatal radiation along the western side of the DC wasteland
• Physical barriers, such as mountains or seas

I'm less taken by:

• 'You can't go that way' invisible walls.

I dislike:

• Invisible walls within the map - the central hills in FNV should have been navigable if you really wanted to.

How do you approach map boundaries and invisible walls (and have you been somewhere you shouldn't be) ?

Boston is not an island or a mountain valley so will it just be 'don't go further' messages?

References:

• Top 10 Boundaries (Gamespot): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-O6i30rxQI
• FNV invisible walls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjRaBmdan7Y
• Walking from Skyrim to Morrowind (out of bounds): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31G3NzAh9Ok

i feel invisible walls as outer boundaries are pretty unavoidable

but as long as they don't appear randomly around tiny hills like NV, i'm fine with them along the outer edge

I much prefer natural barriers such as cliffs or mountains and am perfectly ok with unnatural barriers like rubble providing it isn't blatantly obvious that the rubble is only there as a barrier. Invisible walls, while I can understand the necessity in some situations, are entirely immersion breaking.

I didn't mind the invisible walls so much in FO3. I knew I was getting to the edge of the map.

FONV did the outer edges of the map better, but the invisible walls on every single mountain/hill was absolutely woeful.

All the cul-de-sacs in FONV killed the exploration aspect of that game for me. I was constantly being thwarted, no matter what direction I wanted to head in.

Regarding FO4, I imagine we'll just get the standard "You can't go that way" message. It's immersion breaking, but probably no worse than all of Boston being surrounded by hills, mountains, fences or piles of impassable detritus. In fact, a cut-and-dried message to the player could be preferable to more "natural" looking barriers that one might be tempted to waste time fruitlessly trying to circumnavigate.

With the game taking place in Mass it makes no sense for natural barriers like mountains, radiation fallout would have dropped off by this point unless hit by nuke directly, so the olny thing that would work is the game giving me a message. Just say its desolate there or something and it would be death to wander. as for internal barriers they a pointless and frustrating

There is an interesting problem here... Invisible walls that are inside the map boundaries are almost certainly there to influence the NPC AI... But if they allow the PC to pass through them, then the PC can stand on the other side of one and attack NPCs from a position of impunity.
Not unlike this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V26jNsPlO90

Yet without the invisible walls, the NPC AI might select undesirable paths through the level; or just plain silly ones.

This. Conveniently-perfect natural barriers around an entire region are frequently just as obviously "fake" as invisible walls in most cases, so I don't have an issue either way with them. And it's nice to be able to have vistas that go further visually.

(Not to say you can't have cliffs/etc along some part of the border....)

I'm not a programmer, or even literate in the ways of development.

But instead of a wall couldn't the devs just implement a stump, or a curb (a smaller wall in essence), that the PC can jump over and the NPC can use as cover if and when attacked?If possible it could solve both problems (inelegantly I'll admit).

I agree with this, players shouldn't have their options limited because the AI cant keep up

But that's just what I said ~of the problem... Allowing the player to pass, but not the NPC... makes it an exploit; one where the player can probably attack the NPCs with no retaliation. So... If it is the NPC AI that needs it, then allowing the player to walk out of bounds poses a nasty problem ~does it not?

Obsidian mentioned their own invisible walls, and IIRC some of them were specifically to keep the NPCs from bee-lining across a large hill instead of following the road.
(I may not have the details of that exactly accurate... It's been a while since I read the post, and I don't think I ever saw it in the game.)

I was never really bothered by boundary walls with a message like "You're at the edge of the map, ya goof, no mo game past this point.", but I do get rather cheesed off at invisible barriers WITHIN the game map, like that one little hill you KNOW you can jump over, but for some reason, the game is saying "Nope, that spot over there, really isn't feeling up for company". This may be to prevent the player from circumventing a cell that needs to load from a certain spot, like a town that needs it's own cell, alright, I concede there is a reason...I can accept that...But when it's just one...little...hill...that I'm just trying to pass as a short cut with no landmark in my way...

That irritates me.

Don't like it.

No sir.

The (only?) two times I was bothered by invisible walls in New Vegas... Was when my PC walked through a hole in one at the cannon, and could not (of course) see them to find the way back to the hole.
The other peeve was that banisters had full collision (even in the visible non-solid gaps); and the developers included holes in the ground geometry that had invisible floors over them... That mean that shooting the flamer down the hole was the same as shooting the ground ~and setting the PC on fire.

In FO3 there is this invisible wall in a waist high fence near the edge of the map, that really didn't need to look traversable, but did.

I'm hoping we just get a random chance of being pulled underground by a massive radscorpion the further we go out of bounds. The further you go, the closer the chance approaches 100%. Maybe have some earthquake cues to let us know that we've reached the boundaries.

A curb (smaller wall) would still block NPC paths, provide something that the PC can surmount, while offering the NPC something not only they can shoot over/through but also crouch behind (if it's literally an invisible wall).

This might be complete sophistry, but there's surely an alternative to the conventional invisible wall?

there was a game (don't ask what it's name was I can't remember )that didn't have an "invisible wall" per say but it let you keep going but after a few minutes you'd usually run into fog or sandstorm or something of that nature that would eventually block out all vision and even if you kept going forward your character would "get turned around" and end up back in the boundaries of the game .I felt it was an elegant and yet fairly simple solution to the problem.

Ravenloft:Stone Prophet did that (as well... It's probably not the game you mean.)

I did like Morrowind for being able to swim for a very (albeit pointlessly) long time away from shore.

Am I literally the only one that didn't encounter any invisibile walls in NV? (Maybe near Forlon Hope once).

Thats part of the Mythos of Ravenloft though. Each Evil Overlord has a Domain which is surrounded by methods to direct people back in. Some have fog which turns you around. Others are surrounded by darkness and so on. So the game element was actually PART of Ravenloft mythos. Personall I think either Water will block us in FO4 and we will get messages saying there is just wasteland further on.. and an invisible wall. Ive no issue with that really.

I'm not particularly well acquainted with Boston (and the surrounding areas geography) but I feel invisible walls are a necessary evil. I don't remember the area being completely surrounded by impassable terrain and sure they could try the old radiation boundary but saying that the area is completely cut off from the outside world just doesn't sit well with me. Idk. We'll find out soon enough

The upcoming Mad Max does basically this, but they say you can theoretically continue to drive forever. Maybe not in practice because they also mentioned that storm stuff can damage your vehicle. They also at some points mentioned possibly finding good "scrap" (their thing you use to buy upgrades) out there.

Vault0: Or run out of fuel and effectively end the game for you?

I totally forgot about the fuel . However it wouldn't end the game anyway. In early demos the Mad Max people said that if you run out of fuel they will spawn gas nearby to not make it too frustrating. That spawning might not happen in the off-map void. However in more recent demos they said your car will just move slowly.

lol.. Self Generating fuel!...

wow.. when the world runs out of oil for fuel eventually we just have to wait for the world to spawn some more