I`ve noticed that in Skyrim, no one gets mad at you for fouling up. I`m not talking about enemies who naturally get mad at you, but neutral or friendly people who actually tell you off for making a mistake or failing a mission.

I remeber in Morrowind I had to go to some Island and protect a Buyont Arminger (I think she was) as we went and killed a wizard. Unfortunately she died in the process, I finished the mission and returned to my boss in the Fighter`s. He gave me such a put down for allowing her to die, I actually wanted to Reload the game and try again. but I didn`t, I just walked away...

Then there was that time I kept asking the Fighter`s Guild woman questions about a job she wanted me to do and at the end she more or less said, "And next time shut up and just do as you`re told!"

I don`t see this kind of realistic `hits` in the game where people don`t really care who you are and aren`t afraid to put you down verbally. I liked the added realism.

i agree.

what you are talking about is something skyrim just doesn't have.

my character is nothing in this gameworld. the meaningfulness just isn't there.

the environment doesn't change with us.

the subtleties are gone.

We would also need Faction Rep to come back to support this mechanic. You can screw up, but only a little and you can still get jobs, a lot, and well you are out of luck. Plus, it could be employed to have the character do more Radiant Quests before getting main faction quests. This would make the Guilds play out longer.

Well lets face it, bethesda pretty much dropped the ball on quality. Instead they focused more on quantity, like having a lot of quests and various npc interactions, although most if not all are meaningless. I remember actually carrying about people i interacted with in Morrowind, some in oblivion, but less so in Skyrim, while there is a lot to do in skyrim it really has no meaning, i still find fun in exploring the world and doing dungeons but i miss feeling like i was actually important. I really wish they focused less on Quantity, sure maybe we wouldn't have all those radiant quests or whatever but at least i could give a crap about the npcs i was interacting with or feel awful about failing missions, the only time i ever experienced being scolded for not doing a mission correctly was getting scolded by Maven Black-briar for burning all the bee hives. (lol) But it really had no effect to me personally, as i didn't get any sort of punishment, they should have made me pay for damages.

Yeah I recall being hated when I started Morrowind, and I loved it. I felt like an outsider.

In general, there is not the same amount of NPC interaction- either amongst 'themselves' or with the player. Rather than improve, Bethesda largely abandoned this highly desirable asset.

That would be nice. Morrowind was very good about those types of things.

And in Oblivion sometimes the insults are the most fun. Like Modryn's "I've scrapped things off the bottom of my boot that were smarter than you" or Owyn's "I've heard a rumor that you're an idiot, any truth to that".

In Skyrim you get yelled at if you bump into something, but aside from that I haven't heard much in the way of people getting annoyed at my character.

I know, right. Even when a guard "scolds" me for yelling, he still kind of asks me not to do that. He should of said, "B****, if you don't stop..."

Yes; both the guard and the blacksmith are highly interested should my head hit the bottom of the blacksmith sign. That's about it. Save the world from the soul eater? The blacksmith doesn't notice. The guards do but it's so generic and universal it does not appear personal and directed- as did the many responses listed in this thread in Oblivion.

the bint that owns the meadery gets peaved if u dont follow her mission to the letter.

a few ppl get snippy if you ask them what it was they wanted you to do again.

The beauty of Morrowind was that everyone was racist, and it resulted in an authentic feeling of a land long exhisted.

Actually, something like this happened to me when I was doing a sweep job for the Thieves Guild. Heimskr was the target, I had to rob his house without killing him or getting caught, which I did. Then I left the game for several days and when I came back I completely forgot about this quest and went on to kill Heimskr, because we all know how irritating he can be Another day or two later I happily returned to Vex, who scolded me and generally made me feel like a total idiot and half-assed thief. When I came back after the next mission, she actually commented on my not failing again.

However, I miss being an outsider. It's not natural that everybody welcomes you wherever you go - there are a few bitter comments, but they usually come from racist Nords so they're not really hostile for someone who plays as a Nord.

^{You guys are so right.
Although I enjoy playing Skyrim, I still think Oblivion was much better for dialogue and meaning. I actually thought the graphics were better in Oblivion too. Everything is just brown in Skyrim. Nothing very colorful. Caves are repetitive too. All the inns are pretty much the same building.
Sometimes less is more!!!}

I liked the part where I became leader of the Thieve's Guild, and the bartender goes "So you're Brynjolf's new whelp, eh?" every time I walked by.

If you side with the Stormcloaks after taking over a region, the empire supporting jarl will go to the solitude castle basemant. They have some pretty nasty things to say about you, especially when the room is full.

well you may need to load it back up to see that the caves are far supiour in skyrim. As for colour the world is much mote realistly coloured imo but i suppose some ppl like everything to be bright and glowing, me i like most things to be tershary midtones, blended and dark. its a matter of taste. imo afraid i only agree with u about inns. i was exspecting alot more life in the inns they are so empty and dead its a killer. when i heard about bards and bar fight i though you may actully get ppl drinking and dancing in bars that could be talked/argued with and thats how fights would start, not the hand full of people that offer you out over nothing here and there. bars/inns are a gud way of judging how well a company has acheived that passive sense of connectivity you get to the world, saddly where i thought skyrim would be the best so far its really quite pitiful in this area.

Yea. It`s all a bit sad really. Morrowind felt more like a real place in many ways. People reacted to you like they would in real life if you were dropped off in the middle of a foreign country. You had to work up and doing a job really felt consequential not in just completing it, but completing it in a way that pleased the person who gave you the job.

I mean it would`ve been pretty good if say, Lydia, your Housecarl died in a meaningless bandit batte and when you told the Jarl who gave her to you, he was angry at you? Even if it`s her job to die for you, maybe the Jarl still saw her as a good loyal warrior wasted on a pointless fight. Or if a member of a village who joined you to fight a vampire in a cave died, most of the city folk would look down on you as you passed by for letting a good member of the Town die despite saving them from a vampire?

I think the only time I actually felt like I upset someone in later Bethesda games was in Fall Out 3 in a DLC where I decided to tell a Mother that I was taking her baby. Now she got really mad in her voice. That was the only time I sort of thought, "whoa! maybe I`m making a mistake here."

In some ways...yes.

Homever, remember first arriving at Riften and helping the guards fight off a couple of frostbite spiders near the stables, once killed i went to loot them for their venom and i 'messed up' when a horse walked in front of me and i accidentally got on it.

Cue hysterical shouting from guards, passers by and on lookers.

Refused to let them arrest me for it so made a valiant last stand!

So annoying!

I think it's because Beth isn't making these games for Elder Scrolls fans anymore. They are being made to be played by the everyday gamer. Kind of dumbed down if you will.

Everyday gamers just want to whip through the game. Alot of them don't even really care about the story at all. How many actually read the books? It's just fight, finish said quest, and move on to the next.

I know what you mean about the lack of NPC depth and dialogue. If this game had great and believable NPCs it would vastly improve the game. I think Bethesda focused more on the environment then the NPCs.

I remember in Oblivion

I seem to remember playing morrowind for over 100 hours, and not even being halfway done with the main quest too. I finished this one at less than 100 hours, including all the guilds and a civil war.

Well, The Thieve's Guild made me feel like a total tool a few times when I screwed up. More specifically, Vex. If you don't to the quest as she wanted you to, she gives you an earful at times.

Also, Companions will get rude with you if you're in a house you're not supposed to be in, or if you harm them too much. I was honestly stunned the first time I heard Lydia say "You're NOT supposed to be in here!".

I do agree that there does need to be a lot of more this though.

I agree that people are often a bit too welcoming of you, a complete stranger, however at the same time it would get old rather quickly having everyone in the town insult you every time you got within earshot. There is, after all, a very good reason NPCs like Nazeem in Whiterun are near-universally despised. I suppose it would be more tolerable if people's dispositions improved as you did things for that settlement, since you would be helping them out.

It would also be nice if it were possible to screw up badly enough that your guild threw you out and you had to earn your way back in. Oblivion had this, however it was a bit too easy to get thrown out in some cases; one of the conditions was attacking a guild-mate, and when one got foisted on you for a quest odds were good you were going to accidentally hit them, because they svcked at team combat. Cue summary dismissal from the guild for an attack you hadn't even intended to hit them with, but that nailed them in the back after they jumped into your line of fire.

yah skyrim is kinda forgiving compared to MW