So, it's perfectly all right to stab a sleeping guy in the ribs, as long as he's a jerk?

Sorry, but you do have to play an evil character to do the questline. The game even reflects this, as it adds to your infamy, and takes away your ability to use the chapels and wayshrines for restoration.

In the years I've been playing Oblivion I have never:

Played as an Argonian,Orc,Khajiit,Altmer,or Redguard.
Played as anything but an archer though I will occasionally use a sword or dagger and some magic.
Explored every part(caves,ruins,forts) of Cyrodiil.
Modded the game.
Played KOTN or Shivering Isles.

Evil? You talk like murdering people is wrong or something! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/subrosa_florens/oblivion/Oblivion463.jpg would tell you that the only reason others exist is so that she could take the pleasure from killing them. Its not like they are people, as she is. They are all just victims waiting to happen. That is why the gods put them there in the world. How can slitting their throats and smiling as the life drains from their eyes be immoral? That's just crazy talk.

I'd like to argue moral relativity to this. Infamy is just a reflection of how society sees you, not necessarily any measurement of "evil." Also, I'll be damned if the Aedra are who we should be looking to as judges of benevolence, even if some mortals do, they're no different than the ones looking to the Daedra for the same thing.

Maybe by your morality you have to play an evil character to be in the DB, but I'm sure I could find many ways to make a DB member who would not qualify as "evil" by my morality.

Infamous doesn't mean evil. The Dark Brotherhood is really more of a vigilante organization. You can be a hired killer without being truly evil. Hell, the 'justice' the Dark Brotherhood gives isn't much worse than the 'justice' you'll get from guards.

I will admit that the last quest or two shunts you down a pretty evil path, but afterwards, you're not forced to maintain the Brotherhood, you can let it fall apart simply by not taking contracts. Think of the DB as a mafia, you join up as a small-time killer, and think it'd be cool to be a mercenary. Then the questline takes you deeper than you wanted to go. It's really more amoral than evil.

Maybe it just depends on your definition of evil though. I don't see hired killers as evil. I see people who kill for the sake of killing as evil.

This character definitely qualifies as evil in my book. Anyone who takes pleasure from suffering is evil. Some of the Daedric quests are definitely evil. Letting innocents die is evil.

YEa this bugs me, too, that beastfolk and orcs wear the exact same clothes humans and elves do.

I'm not really trying to define it, guys. I'm saying here that the game presents it that way, by awarding fame/infamy as a result of the path you take. And Lucien Lachance also presents it that way, in his first "interview" with the character.

In thinking about this, I'm inclined to accept that there may actually be a way into the DB quest line for me. I'm presently playing a character who is turning out to be quite dark, and may go partway down the DB path, at least. She's done a couple of things which really surprised me, but which make absolute sense given her back-story. My role play tends to be quite serious; I don't play shallow "avatars" who can be pushed along a pre-determined game path. Real people are complex, and it takes a lot to turn a real person into a shadow murderer-for-hire. I don't know what will happen when (not "if") she meets L.L.

On the other hand, this is a Dead-is-dead character, who may not survive the path she's already on (Thieves Guild.)

Posted Today, 12:40 PM
glargg, on 26 October 2011 - 11:15 AM, said:
So, it's perfectly all right to stab a sleeping guy in the ribs, as long as he's a jerk?

Sorry, but you do have to play an evil character to do the questline. The game even reflects this, as it adds to your infamy, and takes away your ability to use the chapels and wayshrines for restoration.


Well, I have advanced from eliminator to silencer since my first post in this thread. I am currently enjoying my options in pursuit of the purification quest. It would seem that I did not need to perform a lot of gymnastics to accomplish my goal of bringing the DB down as stated above. Interesting thing about evil is that it will normally self implode. All you have to do is nurse it along. Seems like the devs at Beth think an awful lot like I do. Honestly, it would be difficult to pursue the quest line without resorting to evil/murder. You can deploy the normal alternate techniques (manipulation, illusion, frenzy, poisons, etc) but you are still murdering. For me personally, the hypocrisy was worse. My character has no problems admiring her grand arena champion statue for all of the ham acting and berry juice she spilled in that arena simply to hone her destruction skills. I don't like pigs either, and I am not going to try to paint one. But, everything considered, the DB quest line is a good one, but certainly not for everyone. This particular character accepts the fact that she can be a cold blooded killer. It is all about motive, and doing it for the right reasons "greater good". The DB will be shut down. "Enemies explode" will be too kind for them. I will slowly and methodically take each and everyone of them out. I am pleased to eliminate this "I never" from my list. The others don't really bother me, but I don't want to enter Skyrim without firsthand knowledge of how this organization operated in Cyrodil. Neither of my characters have competed the thieves guild either. It doesnt bother me nearly as much. They are not thieves, and are far to wealthy to be interested. I am glad I cleared the DB from my "I never" list, and will pray for redemption from my actions, hoping that it will ultimately save more lives than were destroyed.

That is the thing, good and evil is all about point of view. People labeled as evil by others never believe that they are evil themselves. In fact, they often tout lofty ideals. The KKK, Nazis, Al-Queda, you name them, they were/are all convinced of their inherit goodness and nobility. To my mind, a member of the Dark Brotherhood is going to be the last person to consider murder to be immoral. Otherwise they would not be doing it.

On the xbox 360 I've never beat the MQ. One reason is because i bought the game for the PC and can't go back and play a game without mods. I did get up to the Big gate quest at Bruma but Martin is an A HOLE and keeps getting in the way and dying.

As for the PC I've never even youched the MQ because I HATE how the Oblivion gate ruin such an awesome looking landscape. Also the Oblivion gates are so F'in boring even if I only close the 7 or so major gates. Thank god for people that have made saves after the MQ is finished so I at least wouldn't have to bother with those damn gates.

Yes, and this is the avenue I'm thinking may be open to Etta, while it was not open to my previous characters. Etta has some...issues...with everybody from the gods on down.

I've never killed a Cliff Racer. Thank you Bethesda for sparing me that experience.

I actually quit my first go around because of the gates ruining the landscape. All my games after that, I stay away from the MQ.

I feel the same way. I've done the main quest once. And I've made several characters over the years with the idea of taking them through the main quest a second time. But the thought of all those gates permanently ruining the landscape always makes me scrap the idea before I begin.

Same here. I just give Jauffre the Emperor's bling and carry on with my day. Kvatch can keep it's little Oblivion Gate forever.

Well I used to feel this way, but with my last character who did the MQ, I actually started to miss the gates after he finished the quest. Now, The Grey Wizard (that's his name) is bored and living a country gentleman's lifestyle.

ON-topic: I've never gotten close the unicorn. I saw it once, but it was surrounded by minotaurs, and my character at the time was too low of a level to deal with fighting these off. After that one time, I've never even seen the unicorn before (no spoilers, please).

is mehrunes dagger a free dungon? if yes then where is it?

Never been an Orc. It makes no sense to me, other than being a bloodthirsty berserker.

It′s a DLC

I've never roleplayed, but I've completed almost every quest(if not all of them, if I didn't miss anything) in the game more than once.
Played as warrior, mage and thief.

I haven't done a lot of the Shivering Isles sidequests. By the time I get a character there my game reaches mass ctd or I get bored of them. Until today I never found the corpse of Nath Dyer either. I just happened to stumble across it.

I've never killed the adoring fan

I've never played a Nord

I've never killed a legion soldier

I've never worn legion armor

I've never maxed athletics

I've never walked on water(though I keep meaning to)

I've never used console commands

I've never spree killed(unless you count that part in the fighters guild quest)

I've never done skooma

I′ve never played more than ten percent of the time occupied with Oblivion (thousands of hours) with actually playing - most of it went for installing, checking out mods, playtesting them thoroughly, modifying them here and there... Then again my 200+-hours and my other 500+- hours playing sessions were very glitch-free & enjoyable... And I′ve found my installing-sessions quite enjoyable as well - anticipation is not the worst kind of joy. Ah well, maybe I just should have learned proper modding right at the beginning...

Naturally this means there are many things that I didn′t do so far (ever??) in Oblivion - this one might be the most outstanding one, though

Have never swum or ridden a zebra through Imperial City

Have never hit a Bravilian guard with a fish

Have never summoned Mehrunes Dagon

Have never danced in Cheydinhal′s graveyard



I have had a wonderful time though