So I have a new character idea that I'm really liking the more I toss it around in my head. I loved my archer, but he was almost exclusively a "thief" character (all thief perks w/smithing, enchanting, and a bit of 1h). But I haven't really delved into magic in this game--not even on my pure mage. So I thought of an idea to keep my archery while incorporating magic. Sadly, this is making me hate the idea of magic in Skyrim, because this build is starting to seem impossible.

The worst park is perk distribution.

Firstly, are some of the archery perks broken? I've heard they are. Please clarify.

Also, how effective are the first perks in most trees with 5 levels? Is 5/5 overkill or needed to reach armor cap?

As I'm researching, I'm finding destruction magic to be damn near redundant with archery, which is sad becuase Runes and spell walls sound fun, but how strong are they? Are they practical with archery?

What is the point of the bound bow? Doesn't it rely on the archery tree for damage? And if it does, who would waste extra perks for mystic when anyone investing in conjuration probably has destruction? I can only see it being used with a very specific build. Possibly conjuration/archery. But as far as a mage using it for added offense--no way. I really wanted to use it, but it just seemed like too much work.

So far I'm leaning towards illusion/alteration combo, with resto just for stamina regen. I like illusion for crowd control and alteration for detect life/dead.

Anybody have a class with a similar idea?

Please answer any question you can, and give any thoughts you have as well.

Right now I'm playing a Dunmer archer/mage. he relies on conjuration to summon a bow or two swords (this way I can carry more loot.) and apart from that he'll probably specialize in alteration (the whole thing) and destruction (just far enough for the runes and walls.) perks go into archery, alteration, destruction (but not the whole tree.) Conjuration has some perks aswell (those for conjured weapons.)

I also use skills like sneak, alchemy, ... but they don't receive any perks and are not that important.

I think he is kind of cool to play.

The bound bow does follow archery tree. I.e., your overdraw perks and skill increases will make it more powerful. It can't be smithed and if you plan to smith a lot you will be able to create more powerful bows. My mage used it as she never smithed. You will never run out of good arrows. they are 24 damage each, the most powerful there is. The mystic bow is the most powerful one you can have if you never plan to smith. I also had the soul stealer option, which is very convenient as it never needs to be recharged.

My mage would start by slinging a couple arrows then switching to destruction (impact perk) when things started getting hairy. I found that when surrounded by 3 dragur my bow was useless to me. Hence the magic. I did not find magic/archery redundant. You can sling arrows stealthily but will be quickly discovered if you blast a lightning bolt across the room.

Runes are fun, but only one can be placed at a time and its a little noisy to cast them. I found them sort-of useful but very cool in princple.

So on your pure mage you didn't delve into magic?

Kip we've reached a conundrum!

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with this idea. One rune at a time is a huge bummer, but I'm sure I can work around it. What did you use alteration for? Also, you have a lot of loot, but do you just sell it? With bound weapons and such few robes, chances are you already have what you want, and with enchantment, you definitely do. I like getting loot that is possibly better than I have, but that seems obsolete with this setup.


Meh, never got into pure mage. I like hybrid characters, hence this thread

So I think I've decided to basically re-roll my mage, but add some sneak aspects cuz they're just downright fun.

Here's my build thus far:

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#106616

I want to be a nightblade, but I also want to see what the magic is like in this game. I don't know if I should use robes or armor (is there a difference?) and I'm trying to steer clear of conjuration. That feels like the easy way out. Lastly, I'm using alchemy for the thief feel and to fortify spells as need be. Not sure about pickpocket or lockpick--most perks seem useless.

Let me know what you think. Like if I'm wasting perks or whatnot. Anything is helpful

my hybrid uses illusion, alteration and restoration for a huge and powerful advantage. (specific perk allocation needed)

the base additions of archery are worth it. in fact, archery is the one perk tree you can max out and not waste points (though, bullseye is not needed) however, in many they are not. the first level is 25% and the rest are 5%, i think.

The Speech perks are not necessary, TBH.

I cannot speak to the wall spells because I have not used them much. The rune spells however, become pretty weak at higher levels because they are apprentice level spells that do not increase in strength, and there is no high level version, so pretty soon most enemies out level them. At that point the rune spells become little more than noise makers. For that reason I never take the Rune Master perk. Rune spells were a great idea but horribly implemented.


Bound Bow seems redundant with destruction, but works well in conjunction with conjuration/illusion. Bound bow (with Mystic Binding) gives you the equivalent of an exquisite daedric bow with an unlimited supply of daedric arrows -- very potent. This spell works extremely well with a nightblade style of build that relies on magic and stealth. With quiet casting you can cast it silently. With some perks into archery (overdraw/steady hand/power shot) and sneak (Deadly aim), it is exceedingly deadly. Plus, with Oblivion Binding you can send summons running and turn zombies to ash piles with a single shot. That even works on your own summons, so if they get commanded to attack you, one shot will solve that problem. Plus you never have to worry about filling soul gems.

My nightblade focuses on Conjuration/Illusion magic and one handed (only armsman) and archery only overdraw/eagle eye/steady hand and power shot. He enchants to reduce casting cost instead of taking the spell cost reducing perks.

If you are going to use the bound bow, then you only need novice conjuration, mystic binding and soul stealer in the conjuration tree if you want the most out of your bow. It's like having an improved daedric bow (real daedric bows has a base damage of 19, mystic bound bows have a base damage of 24) with the soul snare enchantment, which will come in handy if you are playing Arch-Mage.

If you think that melee-using enemies are a problem, then you should use frost rune spells on earlier levels, and switching to "wall of..." spell in later levels. Frost is preferable for the slowing effect and the fact that it can freeze with one of the destruction perks.

I think I might use this actually, it's like a defensive archery combination, assuming you use destruction for the runes and walls.

This is true, but adding one more point for the Oblivion Binding effect makes a world of difference when facing off against summoners/necromancers. Unless you are really short on points, I'd recommend considering that one cause it is really fun to one shot all those summons/zombies.

I know how bound bow works, I just wish it fit with my playstyle.

And at first, with my initial archer build, I was going to use destruction for runes and walls,but now I think I'll just use it when my stealth/dagger fail me

It would be really cool if somehow these skills worked with any bow. My archer would have loved this ability. Granted I probably one-shotted it, knowing I sent that [censored] back where it came from is its own reward

Is there any benefit to using robes in this game? I can't seem to find one.

The only benefit is the three mage armor perks that give you up to 300 AR with Ebonyflesh, but since that is less than half what you can get either with regular armor or the Dragonhide spell, those seem like wasted perks to me and not worth it. That is the only gameplay benefit to robes over armor. Mostly its just a roleplaying thing. Oblivion was different. Wearing armor reduced your spell effectiveness. But wearing armor has no effect in Skyrim.

Basically, no. You can put any enchants on any armor. People do it mostly for RP reasons.

That's good and bad. I think I'll do a bit of both. Thanks

I think it plain svcks. If you're going cloth, especially as a spellcaster, you should be able to put some enchants on cloths that you cant on armor

while we're still talking about enchanting, with max enchanting can I create better enchantements than I would ever find in-game? For instance, could I disenchant Nightingale and re-enchant a set of dragonscale armor I made with the same enchants only stronger? If so, how much stronger?

Honestly, just some numbers with fully perked enchanting would be helpful

I agree. There should be some benefit for a mage that wears no armor. The three mage armor perks are hardly what I would call a "benefit" since they are rather weak to begin with and the master level spell makes them obsolete. The spell cost reduction enchants should be restricted to cloth only, no armor.

I dont think you can disenchant nightingale armor. The big key to fully leveled enchanting is to put two enchantments on one item, in addition to having the highest level enchants you can make.

Seriously, make four pieces with +50% 1hand/2hand/archery damage on a melee character and watch the game change to easy mode.

im more of a pure person myself so idk if my view is bias, but i think that the idea of an acher-mage sounds like more of a hassle then something you want 2 do...

I'm gonna re-ask how many points should go in the first perk. Perks like overdraw and agile defender with 5 potential perk points. I always feel the drive to put 5/5 because that would make it worth your while in my eye. But how necessary are these points? Someone mentioned that one point in sneak is 20% boost, whereas 5/5 is only 40%? I'd like to know if overdraw or agile defender are better at 5/5?

With my first archer, my bow always seemed a bit overpowered... but I can't remember how many points I had in this perk so I don't know what to attribute that to. And I plan on getting up close and personal but will, say, legendary nightingale armor protect me with 1/5 agile defender?

Yeah, if you don't fill enchanting up, then the robes you can purchase are the best for magic related skills. Alteration for the defense, and don't you movie a lot faster, and it doesn't use as much stamina.

agile defender and all the perks associated with reaching the ac max must take into account HOW you are going to reach that max.

otherwise, you are wasting perks.

you can easily get to the max without 5 perks in the base perk.

for me, all the archery base perks are worthwhile.

with sneak, i never put more than 1 perk into the base due to its rate of return. you might as well take muffle and/or up to silence.