With Skyrim the racial skills for the Imperial and the Nord changed notably.

The Imperials most noteworthy change was the lack of Speechcraft. This is the most noteworthy change because in the past they have always been considered a very balanced race suited for all archetypes, despite having almost only combat based racial skills. Therefor seeing magic skills being added to them now shouldn't be a surprise, but as mentioned the lack of Speechcraft is.

The Nords on the other hand have been given Light Armor and Speechcraft, two skills they have never had any bonuses to earlier. Since the Imperial and the Nord have had similarities in the past, both first and foremost having bonuses to combat skills I find it interesting that the Nord in Skyrim have more similarities with the Imperial in past games(mostly the Morrowind version) then the Imperials of Skyrim.

Anybody else have some thoughts on this?

Also: I know the racial skills doesn't actually matter, in MW, OB or SR. That is not what this is about.

I find it quite weird, Imperials are like...born diplomats. I would have expected a higher speechcraft.

Yes, Bethesda really dropped the ball on racials. Dark Elves are more 'inferior mages' now than anything else, and the Redguards who traditionally were suspicious and disdain of magic use altogether now have one or two magical racials.

Of course, the reason this happened is because each time Bethesda eliminates some skills the pool from which to give racial bonuses shrinks, so consequently we see more overlap. Redguards, Nords, and Orcs used to have only 'combat' (longblade, axe, blunt, medium armor, heavy armor, etc.) skills for their bonuses, which was fine when there were 8 or 10 combat skills. Now there are only 4.

To be honest...

It hasn't really affected my game.

Azrael
The Nord with the Sword

It haven't affected my game either, I just want to hear peoples thoughts on the changes.

Nord has the worst power in the game especially when it effects your follower as well having them running off as well as the enemy. then you have to waste stamina to catch up to the fleeing foe before the effects ware off. After that your back to were you stated low on stamina and getting gang banged.

I usually don't play based on racial bonuses so it's alright, I guess.
As for the cause/meaning of the change itself, maybe it has got something to do with Nords being somehow privileged by merchants and guards in Skyrim (not the game itself, but the land)? I mean, it is their homeland. Obviously being a Nord doesn't affect the gameplay at all, give more unique options than other races or anything, but the new Speech bonus is still something pretty unusual.

The speech for the Nords kind of stumps me as well as the enchanting for the Orcs.
I've allways seen Imperials as battlemages or crusaders so these changes make some sence,but they should have speech as well.

Come to think of it there are a lot of changes in this game,since when did Redguards start useing magick.

You could argue that this is the change that happens over a 200 year period. Maybe the Imperials are just not a silver tongued as they used to be. Maybe the Redguards had to learn some magic to fight off the AD during the Great War. Maybe the Nords in general have gained more respect and people listen to them more now than before.

Honestly 200 year is a long time and a lot happened during those 200 years. So I suppose I don't have a real problem with the changes.

I also agree that all these skill bonuses are useless. It is nice to be a little better at Smithing or One-Handed when you are level one, but any low skill is pretty easy to overcome by just using it.

I think this is just a rationalization that is trumped by the actual gameplay, balancing realities that I mentioned in my initial post.

If anything given the decline of the Empire territorially, militarily, and economically combined with the erosion of its power and prestige, diplomats are more important to the Empire of Titus Mede than they were to the Empire of Uriel Septim VII. But what really happened was that Bethesda realized that speechcraft as a skill was totally useless in Skyrim, so they combined it with mercantilism, and then realized that it still wasn't really all that useful of a skill.

Variety is good.

If the game doesn't change with the series, then it isn't exactly a game, now is it?

I guess this is a nice change, why, don't forget the majority population is Nord, not Imperial like in Oblivion. The shop keeper, the guard, the farmer, the traven owner, over 90% chances you are talking to a Nord, so given speech bonus to Nord for Skyrim it sounds very reasonable to me.

Or we could have just done things like Morrowind did, where you get a small bonus whenever you talk to someone who is the same race as your character. That way this phenomenon is also present with Dunmer talking to Dunmer, Orcs talking to Orcs, and so on. It doesn't make sense that only Nords like talking to other Nords.

If anything this is unrealistic. I'm an American, and I sure as hell don't get along great with all Americans. But if I was a foreigner living in or visiting some exotic, 'alien' land and I met another American I think our shared cultural identity would contribute a lot more to our friendship in that context than it would when I'm surrounded by all sorts of Americans who I might like, hate, or just feel indifferent about.

The speechcraft change makes sense because Nords in Skyrim are going to have a home field advantage when it comes to diplomacy and bartering.

I don't pay much attention to racials, though, and never played imperials. To me Dunmer are the best jack-of-all-trades race.

Why do people do this? I literally just addressed this point in my previous post. It debunked what you said in your post, and since you didn't make a counter argument it means that your post has contributed nothing to the discussion.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you in particular Celan, it's just a little disheartening when you make a good point and then people pretend like you didn't say anything by not making an attempt to refute it, instead just re-stating the original argument.

I don't remember this feature being on Morrowind. I do remember it being in Oblivion however, maybe you are mixing them up?

These complicated words hurt my brain. Where is this END OF THE WORLD DISASTER!!!

MW had this for the factions: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Factions

To be honest I would like to see reaction modifiers for race, six and factions. It just makes sense.

Even beyond just factional reactions, go back and play Morrowind. All other things being equal, if you're a Dunmer and you go up to another Dunmer, his disposition is automatically +5 more than if you talk to a Nord (again, all else being equal).

Because I'm responding to the OP, not to you. Jeebus.

The way it's done in the game is easier, that's why.

Honestly...this is game where race doesnt matter
and Imperials power svck compared to others
I use breton for my assassin coz magical resistance is kick ass and I can level up more thanks to not enough points in sneak skills which I like

200 years have passed and the Redguards now like magic? OK I suppose they could change but it would have been nice to have some sort of ingame explanation for it (a Redguard spellsword could talk about their views of magic changing during war with the AD) rather than simply changing a skill bonus that previous TES lore says they wouldn't have, just changing a part of one of the races culture with no explanation as if Bethesda thought we wouldn't notice or something.

I feel like I need to apologize to you a little, because I took my frustration out on just you when it wasn't really appropriate. So I'm sorry for 'snapping' at you in my previous post.

They have the best passive ability though: 50% frost resist. Very useful seeing that half the baddies out there have some manner of frost attack. Ice wraiths, frost-breather dracs, draugr, vampires...

Funny how the Nord is sort of Imperial +1 or something. Their racial power is very similar, but the Nords resist frost outclasses the Imperial Luck ability, speaking from a pure gameplay perspective of course.