I was in the Thieves' Guild quest in which you have to rob Mercer's manor, which is guarded by that fellow Vald. I tried breaking in to the backyard, but Vald saw me and started chasing me. Not being an in-your-face warrior type, I ran like hell, and he chased me through the backyards of Riften for a bit. Then at one point I realized he wasn't following me.

Instead, he was fighting Ingun Black-Briar, who had unexpectedly come to my aid. I'm guessing this is because I found all those rare-ish alchemy ingredients for her (nirnroot, nightshade, etc.).

Ingun finished him off with a knife to the throat, leaving me to pillage Riftweald Manor in peace. As a result, even though Maven may be a world-class [censored], I still can't dislike the entire brood. I won't even steal from them now.

i like them

i have no problem with maven black-briar , i cannot understand why people hate her so much - i mean i REALLY don't understand , shes the only person in skyrim who isn't depressed or poor or something...she just gets on with the dirty business at hand and is rich and powerful because of it.

She thinks she rules the world. That's why everyone hates her.

but i disagree with this , i can understand the thalmore but the black-briars? a little up themselves perhaps , but who isn't in skyrim ? no , overall i like the whole family , and i think players are just irritated because they cannot kill maven

That's what i mean. She thinks she's untouchable. She thinks she owns the world. And you bet, if i could kill her she would already be dead. I really dislike her

Seriously? I thought you were being sarcastic before. The reason I dislike her is that she has made herself rich and powerful at the expense of others who are, as you say, poor and depressed, when they are not simply dead. I don't see why this would be a mark against them rather than her.

Maven is not very likable, it must be said. She's powerful, ruthless, callous and rude. I expected to dislike the whole clan, but that's why Ingun's intervention was such a cool moment. (Also it's the first time a non-follower NPC has ever come to my aid in the game--something I often heard Todd Howard talk about, pre-release).

As I mentioned I went to rob their house later, but half the stuff in there doesn't even count as stealing because of Ingun's favor. And there she is telling me, "It's a fine day with you around." So I left without taking anything (and then promptly stole the blacksmith blind--this was one of those bedlam jobs).

well...ya know no offence but its a bit rich coming from everybody considering your running around slaughtering people as an assassin , robbing everybody blind as a thief, and generally beating people up for no reason...

your not exactly a baby angel are you ?

anyway , im glad somebody just got on and actually made something of themselves in cold , depressed skyrim , maven is a clever and brave lady and i admire her for it.

Yeah, my sneak-thief/archer/assassin is my "bad" character, after two "good" characters that couldn't do the TG or DB questlines. I suppose it makes sense that she would not necessarily look down on Maven. She might actually look up to her as a powerful woman who takes no [censored] and gets things done.

If you want to RP even slightly--just maintain some consistency in your character(s)--I found I needed a character that had no qualms about theft and murder. But that doesn't mean she ignores a debt, or will necessarily bite the hand that feeds her. She just thinks that if you're not for her (and most people in Skyrim aren't, as she's a Dunmer), you're against her, so to hell with you. She's a very liberating character to play with--my favorite of the three I've played.

ow i agree - each character is different but my personal view is what i have stated

Actually I don't do any of those things, and when I make a character in Skyrim that does them, I despise them too. What Maven has made of herself is horrible.

ingenue , everybody is allowed their own views , don't push yours on anybody else.

Hey, you've expressed your view more often in this thread than I have mine, and it was you who wrongly suggested I did things, not vice versa. If you don't want people to say they disagree with your opinions, best not post them in public.

Maven openly supports the Thalmor so instant dislike. I don't want any Thalmor influence in MY TG or DB

Is she not better than the naive Jarl of Riften?

Maven at least squashes potential knives to the back.

Stormcloak Jarl of Riften is better than Maven as Laila won't be friends with nazi elves or support them. Plus she can seek outsiders to deal with other problems like the skooma quest.

I used to not mind Ingun, until I overheard the alchemist's wife talking with him about how she (Ingun) does experiments on animals/tortures them. I can't remember the exact quote, but it definitely creeped me out a bit.

I actually don't hate Maven. I don't like her, but I think there are worse characters. Still, if I had my way, I'd get rid of the whole family except for the younger son. Too bad most of them are essential!

True true, but her advisor still betrays her...

Her housecarl also wears elven armour.



Tell me, is that indicitive of a leader, or a blinded fool?

Maven may be a rather infamous person, but she knows how to make the most for herself.

Even Ingun hints at Maven and Hemming being 'petty', and if she were allowed to truly go over to the 'dark side', she would do it within a heartbeat. Shame the Dark Brotherhood already has an alchemist.

Ingun and Maven don't often agree with each other. If Maven's not the Jarl, they argue when they're at home at dinner, but neither of them are decent people. None of them seem especially worth anything to me. They are vengeful, arrogant and cruel.

Talk about maven; you'd make a fine maven too

I quite like Ingun, and while I don't really have a huge problem with Maven, I wish there was a way to remove her influence from the TG. I wish you could recruit allies in Riften, pay off the guards, and separate from her, and even better, force her out, take over her business, and become the real power in Riften yourself.

If you did that I think you'd destroy Maven more completely than if you killed her.
The reason I don't like Ingun is because she is known to practice cruelty in her alchemical experiments. I don't like her or the old male alchemist in Riften that teaches her. Oddly enough his wife seems like a nice person.

Your avatar and name kind of indicate you would support the Thalmor loving Imperial Jarl than the nice Jarl. Tell me, are you really going to give Maven, the person who has been known to employ the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood to deal with her problems, legal powers that would allow her to punish anyone who threatens her corrupt activities. Laila may be a tad incompetent but at least she tries to deal with the crime like the Skooma whereas Maven would allow it to grow in order to increase her power. If Laila is in charge, people like Mjoll are considered great whereas under Maven people like Mjoll are considered trouble and are likely to be arrested or executed on false charges. I support Laila Law-Giver rather than Maven Thalmor-Lover.