After playing Skyrim solidly (some might say obsessively ) since release, I decided to nip back to Cyrodill with my level 35 Breton battlemage for a little perspective on what we've gained, and left behind, with Skyrim. Some initial thoughts :

(i) Cyrodill seems small, cramped even.. the first thing that comes to mind is that popular description of it being "in a bowl".. Bruma is just a short sprint up the road from the Imperial City.. standing on any decently-elevated spot, I can see clear from one side to the other, it seems. Compared to the epic trek which is the ride from Riftin to Markath..

(ii) Towns (the few that are not in separate cells, that is) seem sparsely populated, and lifeless. Maybe a couple of npcs standing around, passing the occasional comments about goblins and mudcrabs. No activities, no work, no life.. and the inns.. let's just say you won't hear a bard's voice and mandolin, but you will hear the crickets in the Tiber Septim..

(iii) Horses are slow, and have the turning circle of a semi-trailer. They seem to have more/better animation idles than their Skyrim counterparts, though

(iv) Roads are deserted except for ogrim and minotaurs, which attack you on sight.. I did, however, run into Countess Alessia out for her regular ride by Fort Nikel and nearly fell off my horse on the convo zoom.. It cannot be overstated just how unattractive the OB ncps remain..

(v) I popped into Haynote cave, and was greeted by black bears, brown bears, rats, imps, and spriggans.. guarding chests full of miscellaneous items ranging from ebony cuirasses to a clove of garlic.. what ? And despite being a multi-levelled design, I was looking for the exit long before the second level. I'd always found both Morrowind and OB caves fairly lacking, but now, after the diversity of the Skyrim caves, just.. no...

(vi) Spellcasting in OB is so easy, intuitive even, a joy.. and such a wide selection of spells ! I did not realise how much I missed having a wide selection of spells from all the spell schools. And the seemless transition between casting, striking and blocking makes me miss it in Skyrim. Switching between modes in Skyrim remains, for me, fairly cumbersome and unresponsive..

For those of you who have gone back / played both lately, what are the differences you notice most ?

A big one for me is how cartoony Oblivion looks in comparison to Skyrim. Seems a bit harder for me to take it as seriously before playing Skyrim

For me the most significant difference is that I can play and enjoy Skyrim without any mods. Oblivion, in its vanilla state, was not a game I really got much out of (the way mobs and loot scales). Mods changed that later and I ended up loving Oblivion, but out of the box it didn't impress me much. Overall, though, I prefer many of the changes that were made in Skyrim: no more multipliers to juggle, abilities through perks, more interesting crafting options, a larger world, and a general improved "feel" of being part of it. Better dungeons, as you said, as well. And above all: Khajiits finally look as I've always imagined them.

(Morrowind had a better story!)

Oblivion had better quests and questlines. It was pretty amazing looking for it's time as well. I stop there. (incoming spellmaking crowd).

Unfortunately oblivion without mods is very lacking compared to Skyrim, the atmosphere is just non existent.

I probably could go back and play it, but definitely not with a straight face.

Also these threads are oh so common, the Oblivion vs Morrowind, Morrowind vs Daggerfall and so on, quite pointless. The thing i want most is a new engine for the next game and considering it will most likely be for the next generation of consoles (yeah i know, but that is just life), Bethesda would be shooting themselves in the foot if they used this again.

I don't care about spears, crossbows, levitation or whatever, since they are far to much work and i fully understand the catch 22 situation of games development.

The more you create a world, the less you can populate it with and vice versa.

If you imagined the animation work that had to be done, the fine touches to the graphics of each weapon and making sure that its a solid addition to the game, the work tends to go up exponentially and a studio like Bethesda just doesn't have the resources to make it all happen.

The best that can happen though is that Bethesda gets a game right in general (ignoring bugs for a moment since it seems to be a universal constant), is that Bethesda can make a believable world with what resources were allowed for it.

I think they achieved that, much more so than with previous games, the character textures no longer distract you either.

Just think of it like this, they may be taking things out (i don't agree with the changing of spell craft though, though i understand that it would take an age to create the new effects for each and how you would explain spells you created that go together...what effect would it create in your hand?, i still think it was a mistake) but they are creating a much more vast world at the same time.

Oblivion only really had 4 good points about it.

- Dark Brotherhood
- Thieves guild
- Modryn Oreyn
- Sheogorath

Nothing else about that game was actually really any good, even Skyrim despite it's flaws is well and truly far above what Oblivion was as far as a TES game goes.
It was decent as an RPG though, but there's a difference.

When compared to Skyrim, it doesn't come close, when compared to Morrowind... well comparing it to Morrowind at all is just insulting.

I can't really say, last time I played Oblivion was on 9 November. I played Morrowind the day later. I have played Skyrim every day for the last three weeks.

So agree on the modded Vs unmodded comment. Skyrim for me so far (with perhaps the exception of the odd UI tweak) is great out of the box. Whats more, it remains after 80hrs compelling - only a third of the map revealed, and so much more left to discover ! Oblivion vanilla.. I couldn't. As much as I enjoyed parts of it, there is just too much that requires fixing.. including a pervading sense of boring.. not sure that can be modded out

Oblivion was a good game, but what made it great were the mods, I cant wait to see what will be out for Skyrim once they release the Construction Kit in January.

Some points were valid im sure, but saying cyrodil was smal? wtf? walk from leyawiin to bruma or chorral if were talkin walkin dist. It takes an entire day to go from imperial city to chorral, doesn't take a whole day to go from whiterun to markarth. Maybe timescale is diff, but how long I walk vs movement on the map is very large compared to oblivion. How ive perceived it anyway...

Oblivion is 30 hours to 1 hour real life.

Skyrim is 20 hours to 1 hour real life.

well first off, ill say this. i play an elf in every TES game i play. with that said, i HATE the skyrim art style. nords are great and all, but they're barbaric. cryodil was much fancier and more elegant. personal preference i know but still... it always haunts me whenever i open skyrim. i sometimes port myself to blackreach to get to a place where i enjoy the art style...

oblivion's spellcasting was much better, as already mentioned. skyrim spellcasting feels broken and clunky. the impact perk makes it even worse. sometimes i use chain lightning/fireball just to see some cool effects, even if it takes me 3 times as long to kill something and i end up killing my dremora as well...

oblivion felt more like a PC game. skyrim almost feels like a console port of an arcade game. (almost) every dungeon has the same format of trash mobs and 1 big boss at the end with a boss chest/word wall/quest objective for rewards. it gets tedious

the quest lines were much more epic in oblivion. going into the oblivion plane felt like an awesome moment. it was a whole new world to explore and conquer. skyrim doesnt have that. the closest we have is sovengarde.

oblivion's major cities felt more alive. there were A LOT of people in there and they felt fairly urban. skyrim feels like its 1 step up from an indian village... they're just not that populated and there are no extra buildings. everything is necessary. there isnt anywhere in a city thats just for show. the imperial city might not have been all that big when u look at skyrim, but it FELT bigger.

oblivions wildlife doesnt compare to skyrim at all though. if i stepped outside in oblivion, i didnt fear for my life. traveling between locations wasnt a trouble if i didnt have a bounty or run into a cave. in skyrim, i can actually sense danger in the outdoors. while dragons, giants and mammoths arent as much of a threat as they used to be, they still exist and i like that

overall, we'll see what the mods do with skyrim. the stats system wil lget modded and changed. we wil lget new questlines that are HUGE. there are always mods for that type of stuff. i just hope the quality and variety match oblivion's.

Oblivion was more needing of mods, as in the general ideas of the game were just awful (levelling up being the most annoying).

With Skyrim the quality is higher across the board, if we ignore the removal of spell creation (which will be adding back in regardless), you no longer have to immediately find a new character mesh/texture replacer before you puke all over PC.

Skyrim is a better game in almost every way. However, there are some things about Oblivion that I think are undoubtedly better:

1. Oblivion has longer faction quest-lines with arguably better stories than the ones in Skyrim. I miss the fact that Oblivion's four main faction quests all seemed like a main quest in their own right. Yes, some of the quests did not contribute to the main plot for the faction, while Skyrim streamlines it and simply makes irrelevant quests optional/radiant, but overall it just feels like each guild has less to do for it. And it ALREADY felt a bit weird in Oblivion how quickly you made it to the head of a guild; it feels REALLY weird in Skyrim.

2. Dealing with lots of different spells and weapons was much easier in Oblivion. Hotkeys do not work well in Skyrim at the moment (if you dual wield, trying to use spells is a massive pain). In Oblivion it was really easy to be a warrior who occasionally threw out some spells. This is stupidly cumbersome in Skyrim.

3. Differences in architecture in cities/towns. Too much of Skyrim has the same architecture. For instance, Winterhold, Falkreath, Morthal, and Dawnstar, as well as virtually every "town" (such as Riverwood or Ivarstead) ALL have the same architectural style. Granted, the other cities are all different from each other, but I think it's silly that well over half the places you visit look almost exactly the same. Oblivion did not actually have a huge assortment of architectural styles, but if you showed me a building from a city in Oblivion I could almost certainly tell you which city it came from. Sometimes the differences were small; a lot of places just have some variation on a Tudor/Victorian theme, but the fact remains they were still distinct, and that added some character to cities that Skyrim cities should have had too.


On the other hand, there are TONS of things Skyrim does better:

1. While the cities in Skyrim are architecturally similar, they excel at being quite different in many other ways. Different cities have different problems, political situations, political views, and history. It gives the cities personality that Oblivion's cities lacked. Oblivion's cities were all the same in terms of NPCs and political situations and stuff. You might remember what quests you did in a given city, but you don't ever really have a sense of differences in cities beyond different quests and different architecture.

2. The leveling system makes more sense. No longer is there an incentive to pick "major skills" that you will never use so that you will level up less and thus be more powerful relative to enemies and get higher attribute boosts at level up. You just level up when your skills overall get higher, and that's how it should be. Taking away the whole thing where your attributes go up based on how many times you skilled up certain skills over the course of that level was good too; simply adding to health, magicka, or stamina each level is much more sensical. Meanwhile, perks are a good idea as well.

3. Dragon fights are better than Oblivion gates (though I do miss the inherent enemy variance that went along with fighting all kinds of daedra on top of the standard animal/undead/creatures/NPC stuff)

4. There are more and better side quests in Skyrim. There are also more random places to find on the map it seems.


I could go on. Overall, Skyrim is a better game. I do wish, though, that the things I listed as worse than Oblivion were not there.

what didnt u like about oblivion leveling? i can almost guarantee u that everything u didnt like (probably how complex and tedious it was), i loved about it. i find skyrim leveling WAY too easy but i didnt mention it in my post as it would derail the entire thread and theres no need for that. im one of those people that enjoy making charts to plan out my leveling routes and builds months i nadvance so i can min-max into a better character

as for skyrim's looks, i man old skool rpg gamer. my favorite games are old final fantasy (like ff6). i couldnt care less how my character or the world looks. i play skyrim in the lowest possible settings. i play TES for the gameplay.

i miss the repairing, shops not being all 'walmartyfied" where u had to go to different shops for different items and not just find everything u need in 2 shops.
Im kinda torn as far as the Guild questlines goes, because i like the rank system and working ur way up in rank in those guilds were as in Skyrim u bypass the ranks and seems like ur a topdog with lil to no effort BUT Bethesda did do a good job as far as giving a reason why its a different aprouch as far as

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS!!!













companions-after u do a mission and wipe a dugeon of the Companions sworn enemy in combat then ya i can see being brought inot the circle wheneveryone else is still training and clowning around. u showed potetnial in that situation.
thieves guild--pretty much the only member not affected by the "BLANK" on everyoneand pretty much single handeedly get it back up and running
Dark brotherhood--well pretty much its not really the brotherhood, only in name and after they expell/get rid of the ONLY dark brotherhood member that leaves just u
mage's Guild---ok ya they dropped the ball on this one because i cannot wrap my brain around why my toon only had 4 spells that i use occationally that im the best mage in the country to get that high seat...when mostly i swung an axe to solve the problems

Oblivion had better guild quest lines. You actually belonged to an organization and worked your way up.

Oblivion is better at:

+ Magic and spell diversity, spell making
+ Dark Brotherhood quests were more interesting and unique
+ Fetch quests were disguised better, the "misc" quests in Skyrim just scream "FETCH"
+ Arguably better dungeon design, due to being more non-linear, though Skyrim's are more well-crafted

Oblivion is worse at:

- Damn near anything else
- Writing, atmosphere and lore especially

Morrowind, for me anyway, is significantly better than both Oblivion and Skyrim in most areas, though Skyrim is pretty damn awesome and a true sequel IMO.

It's weird how much I forget how Oblivion was. It hasn't been that long.

Graphically, Skyrim is more detailed and realistic, although it's geographically less accessible. The NPCs are so much better in Skyrim. And all the little stories built in to everything...potions and food have improved, although I miss the merchants having infinite gold. Exploring in Skyrim is so much more of a treat.

Skyrim is more polish all around than Oblivion. To me, Skyrim is like Oblivion with a descent injection of steroids. I don't think I will ever go back to Oblivion. I tried so hard to like Oblivion; downloaded tons of mods but in the end it failed to capture my long term interest and awe just like Morrowind did. Oblivion did have its moments in terms of graphics and story but in the end it fell short in my experience. For me, Oblivion was like the Vista of the TES series.

It doesn't take a day to go from the Imperial City to Chorrol, it takes about 5 minutes IRL which I believe is about 2.5 hours in-game. It's much further from Whiterun to Markarth.

Really? Oblivion actually hurts my eyes with how stupidly colorful it is, Skyrim has a tad more realistic style in terms of color and style, it's very dark and gloomy if the Sun isn't out, Morrowind was the same and in my opinion dark and gritty is a tiny part of what I originally loved about the series.

In terms of style and lore, Oblivion barely qualifies as an Elder Scrolls game, as an RPG sure, but as I pointed out earlier, when it comes to standards of "What makes a good Elder Scrolls game" and "What makes a good RPG? game" they have very different meanings, and I think many newer players don't pick up on that, how Beth even seem to forget at times, they do seem to be trying though.

For me, I can play any of the Elder Scrolls games and have a blast, I really don't like one over the other. That being said, I went back to Oblivion and one thing I like about Skyrim better is that the people's faces that you talk to don't fill up the entire screen.

I do kinda miss the "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!"

I agree with this. The lack of variety in Skyrim is better masked than Oblivion's but essentially it is the same. Oblivion has a bigger landmap and I too adored the Planes of Oblivion and the variety in quests (especially those where you were teleported to spirit realms and painted worlds). I prefer the cities and acrhitecture of Cyodiil. And the magic and Alchemy systems were much better in Oblivion. I do love Skyrim a lot though.

No time to think hard and make a long post; i'll say with certainty that the GUILD QUESTS in oblivion had much more content than in Skyrim.