So I have read a lot of comments, some suggestions and others complaints, that Skyrim is a little shallow. In a lot of ways, I tend to agree. The thing is, most of the people that say things like this are referring to plot, backstory, lore, quests, character development, and a million other major core mechanics that would take huge developer investment to fix.

In this thread, I don't want to talk about those things. In this thread, I don't think we should concern ourselves with ways we could make Skyrim a mile deep. For now, I think One Inch Deeper could be helpful.

So what am I talking about? Small things. Little improvements that could be made here or there for little effort, but that would make the game more interesting and enjoyable. Since Skyrim has almost unlimited content, I'm not going to be able to come up with much more than a fraction of all the great ideas out there, but I would love to see as many as possible. I'll begin:

Books
Skill books give you +1 skill point for free, instantly. I think it would be more interesting, and more akin to reading a book and learning from it, if you had to do something or practice something in order to get that point. Just something minor, so that the skill point is no longer free and instant. Some basic ideas might be:

• Swing a sword a few times to get a one-handed point
  
• Cast a few spells, perhaps a small variety of them, to get a spell point
  
• Mix a couple potions using a new ingredient (or a basic one like salt or fly aminata) to get an alchemy point
  
• Hit a target with some arrows
  
• Solve a puzzle or a maze
  
• Craft an item or two
  
• Spar with a follower
  
• etc.

These could be very simple and very straightforward, just a few seconds or minutes of effort in order to get the skill point.

Spell Tomes give you a single spell, sometimes very powerful ones, instantly and for free. Similar to the skill books, I think there should be some task associated with obtaining the spell. Remember good ole "Fingers of the Mountain?" Something like that, but not quite so involved, would be cool. Some ideas:

• Go to [place] at [time] to do something (I'm thinking of creating black soul gems in Oblivion - cast soul trap on an alter on a certain night. Simple and effective.)
  
• Cast spells of a certain element in a certain way
  
• Solve puzzles, mazes, or even some sort of bizarre "arcane" mini-game (not every time, mind you, but occasionally)
  
• Trace a rune in the air (once, just to learn the spell)

Followers
Combat Orders would make followers considerably more useful. For instance, instructing them to use a bow only (or a sword or spells or whatever).

Simple Instructions such as "Stay Behind Me" or "Stay in Front of Me" or even "Follow My Path Exactly" would be great. Could help with followers charging in and breaking stealth, or with followers triggering traps that you just took the time to step around.

Sparring to increase skills, similar to the trainers in Oblivion, would be fun.

Spouses should all be followers. For the sake of enjoyment or role-playing, it can be nice to go on a peaceful walk with your spouse. Even if they aren't much of an adventurer, they wouldn't need to be.

Skill Trainers, instead of simply paying money for them to instantly raise your skill, you pay them and they become your follower for a period of time. Similar to Resting or the Standing Stones, this follower/trainer would now boost the rate at which gain a skill. Alternatively, your level in their skill could simply rise steadily the longer they are your follower, up to the normal five point maximum. The cost in gold would remain the same, but the skill gain would no longer be instantaneous.

Classes
Skills need not all be associated with classes anymore. One problem I hear about a lot is "My Mage/Warrior shouldn't be forced to pick locks!"
Well, adding in a mage lock opening skill and a warrior lock opening skill, and then repeating that for every thing that you might want do do as a mage or a warrior, or a thief... ends up getting into this huge mess of skills. Too many magic, too few thief skills, etc. To create balance, simply have 3 or 5 or some number of skills that are particular to the class and define it, such as destruction, or block, or sneak, and put all other skills into a basic, non-specific category. I bet you money that fewer people would object to the need to pick locks if it wasn't specifically a stealth/thief skill.

Besides, in this category you could have some new skills that everybody wants, such as Athletics or Fitness, Climbing or Acrobatics, things that characters should be able to improve but that don't fit nicely into a particular character schema.




That's all for now, but I eventually intend for this thread and post to be much larger. I'm just not very good at thinking up ideas on the spot, even though I've had quite a bit more than just this in the last few days of playing Skyrim. As I think of more, I'll add them. Also, as people reply in this thread with their ideas, I will add those as well.

And remember, we aren't talking about re-writing the game. Baby steps.

You know what to do then...grab a PC, and start making them yourself

I doubt most of that will ever get officially implemented. Not trying to ruin your party, but it's the truth.

It sounds llike that's what he wants to do. But this thread is to gather ideas and get feedback from the community. I'm interested in seeing where this goes. I also wish I had something useful to add but I don't so i'll just lurk.

I like this idea a lot.
It doesn't seem like it would be entirely too hard to script. Make it so that reading the skill book puts a skill point "on hold" but the skill point doesn't get applied until the next time you use that skill.
That would solve a problem that many folks have of going out of their way to avoid skill books for skills they don't want/need/use.
If your warrior accidentally reads an alchemy skill book- no biggie. The skill doesn't improve until you actually use it (maybe never).
This is exactly why I modded Sylgia to be a follower. She no longer needs to ask if I've been off on some adventure- she's killing bandits, falmer and Dragons with her hubby.

This is a great idea!!

I like your suggestions, but I still challenge the notion that Skyrim is mechanically shallow. The basic elements of gameplay within Skyrim are actually quite deep, the more you learn about them, the more it becomes apparent, this games got one hell of a math system running under its hood.

Where Skyrim is truly shallow, is in narrative design. There's just no flexibility with your character's non-combative personality, short of avoiding the content that doesn't have a fitting resolution to the type of character you want to play.(Or even a generic-ish resolution so it doesn't disjar your experience)

Also, you have no idea how hard it was to resist the temptation to just post "That's what she said", and then leave this thread.

No.

I love the ideas, but they're to deep and immersive for Bethesda's new target audience, 21st century kids.

Give me a kill cam toggle, and I got no problems with Skyrim.

Why? The CK is e..... (I try again, it's ea.......ssssss......).

Arg, sorry, can't do it

Give me an Acrobatics skill and a climbing skill.

??? I thought you liked killcams...

I lol'ed But sadly, I have to agree...

Wow, thanks for the compliment. I'm almost 40 and I love Skyrim. I feel like I just got carded for beer.

You know, you probably fit that description better than most of the people you think you are talking about.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Skyrim is a game for "kids." In fact, it's got quite a lot in it that seems intended for advlts. I would prefer that you post something like a contribution, or nothing.

Quit with the mod comments.

Yea, this thread isn't intended to be a list of things for me to mod in. I don't know how to mod, and it's not very easy or fast to learn. I might pluck around with it some day, but not soon. Rather, this is a collection of ideas. There's a chance Bethesda will pick up on some of them, and there's a chance that other (better) modders will.

There's even a chance that Bethesda will take it as some of that elusive "productive feedback" and just keep the ideas in mind for TES VI. It really doesn't matter, I'm not going to be doing any modding in any event.

I'm good, I'll post anything that I want within the forum rules.

I play Xbox 360. Do mods help me? No. So I'm just tired of mod comments because I'd like to see mods implemented into Skyrim.

Like horse armor, wasn't that originally a mod that they made DLC?

It's easier than you think. I'm self-taught and I know how to do things like making statics out of any item (thus they're completely fixed in the world and Havok-proof), edit interiors (add/remove doors, lights, walls...), also some exterior editing, a bit of scripting...and don't forget you also have access to tons of modder resources if you need new items or meshes (something many modders tend to miss).

The trick is to learn the basics of how to use the CK, and once you learned them, then if you want to add something, just look at how it has been done already in the game, or even in another mod, and then just do your own implementation (remember to give credits if you got some idea from a mod!).

Case in point: I just thought of two more but only added one, because I could only remember one of them by the time I finished writing. So, hopefully the other will come back to me in a minute.

First for me, and it requires no new mechanics, no changes to the UI, no extra voice acting, just text. Almost every entry in the journal is in dire need of changing, from a list of things to do to something with a bit of backstory, something to motivate you, and most importantly a few lines of directions. Simple directions could work with Radiant Story as they can be assigned to locations, not quests. RS sends you to, say, Shimmermist for whatever reason, a line as simple as "I have been told to head to the foothills North of Whiterun, then search to the East" would make all the difference to the 'follow the magic marker' feel that can be prevalent.

Just a couple of things I would like to see added.

1. Make eating a sleeping a requirement and impose nagative buffs to health and stamina if the charachter doesn't do these.
2. I would like to be able to carry a bed roll so that I can camp in the wilds, the world could get bigger this way too, I mean you can travel across the entire country in about a day or so. It would just be nice that when I get side tracked on my way somwhere and night falls, I would like to be able to lay down a camp instead of waiting in the dark for 8 hours... also this goes back to item 1.
3. With the exception of leather and iron each armor type should have a heavy and light version, like dragon armor does. Possibly could even devolp several armor types for the materials and change the skill so you learn armor types and not materials, same with weapons (but I guess that makes the skill tree too deep).

Hi Varus. How are you doing? Great, or so I hope. This is my kind of thread. Please find my comments enclosed below

Wow, worst choice of title ever!

Anyway, none of what you listed adds any real depth to the game, it only makes things more convenient. Examples of things which add depth would be: quests can be completed in multiple ways, you can dual-cast spells of different schools to produce an original effect, sabotaging a hold's economy by destroying mills and farms will increase prices in that hold but decrease prices in the competing holds, archery's power shot slows enemies if they are struck in the legs and staggers them if struck anywhere else, shouts are redesigned to be weaker but have much shorter cooldowns so they can be weaved between your main attacks, etc., etc..