optimal max number modsesp files : V

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:03 am

What is the maximum number of esp files one should be using?

I remember Oblivion had issues when the Data folder count got too large. BTW, very imformative thread for Oblivion here http://www.gamesas.com/topic/941296-bugz-oblivionexe-filedirectory-thrashing/page__st__80

I just wonder if there are concerns with Skyrim and too many mods. I wonder if merging lots of small/minor mods would be a good idea.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:24 pm

I heard the limit is 210 but I'm not completely sure about that number.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:57 pm

Max is 253.

[00] Skyrim.ESM
[01] Update.ESM
[02 - FE] Mods.ESM/p
[FF] YourSave.ess

Merging might or might not work out well according to the mods' content.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:26 pm

Optimal Max: About 40.

Actual Max: What JustinOther said.

We need a massively updated WB to consider using hundreds of plugins, to be honest. Doesn't stop people from doing it, but every person I hear of doing that has crashes. <_<

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:16 pm

Max is 252.

[00] Skyrim.ESM
[01] Update.ESM
[...] Mods.ESM/p
[FF] YourSave.ess

Merging might or might not work out well according to the mods' content.

Why are you mentioning saves? Does that factor in too?

Optimal Max: About 40.

Actual Max: What JustinOther said.

We need a massively updated WB to consider using hundreds of plugins, to be honest. Doesn't stop people from doing it, but every person I hear of doing that has crashes. :dry:

Wow, just after 40 and the stability drops? That's pretty small

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:06 am

Why are you mentioning saves? Does that factor in too?

The loaded save is FF and is invariably loaded last.

Wow, just after 40 and the stability drops? That's pretty small

The number of mods is arbitrary. One could just as easily have problems running one mod as they could 252 as stability relies entirely upon the properties of the mod(s) loaded/how they interact and not the number of plugins. Load order can help in many cases.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:47 am

Max is 252.

[00] Skyrim.ESM
[01] Update.ESM
[...] Mods.ESM/p
[FF] YourSave.ess

Merging might or might not work out well according to the mods' content.

Wouldn't it be 253? 00-FF is 256 slots.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:30 am

Guess so, huh?

*edits above*

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:34 pm

The number of mods is arbitrary. One could just as easily have problems running one mod as they could 252 as stability relies entirely upon the properties of the mod(s) loaded/how they interact and not the number of plugins. Load order can help in many cases.

I was going for a newb-friendly number.

It's true. But adding in mod after mod doesn't work. Like guys running Duel, Deadly Combat, and ACE Realistic Fighting all at the same time. If you pay attention and watch where conflicts are, you can add as many as you want.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:28 pm

I hope I don't need the newb answer! I've been dealing with conflicts since morrowind! :wink_smile:

256 slots then. And three already get taken up. Not sure why I didn't follow the first time. I need to go to bed. Maybe TESV will use short integers instead of bytes to manage mod indexes (joking)

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:55 am

In reality, the optimal number of max mods that you can get away with using will depend on the type of mods and your particular system - a friend of mine once tried to add 200 mods to Oblivion on his ancient laptop because he was told the game supported that many mods :huh:

Needless to say, the game was a slideshow, with regular CTDs.

Just putting it out there, in case other people are tempted to overload their game - make sure the mods are compatible, and make sure your system can handle it!

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:57 am

The physical number (ESM+ESP) as stated, is 253 not counting the saves and such. I currently am running 400 mods, but most of them are armor and weapon mods I've merged together. Those are the ones that seem to be the safest to merge without something like Gecko availble to do more "advanced" mods or getting too involved in the CK....

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:34 am

Optimal Max: About 40.

Actual Max: What JustinOther said.

We need a massively updated WB to consider using hundreds of plugins, to be honest. Doesn't stop people from doing it, but every person I hear of doing that has crashes. :dry:

Well the new WB team are doing a good job so far and have released 298, although i havent tried 100's of plugins

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:18 am

In reality, the optimal number of max mods that you can get away with using will depend on the type of mods and your particular system - a friend of mine once tried to add 200 mods to Oblivion on his ancient laptop because he was told the game supported that many mods :huh:

Needless to say, the game was a slideshow, with regular CTDs.

Just putting it out there, in case other people are tempted to overload their game - make sure the mods are compatible, and make sure your system can handle it!

Its entirely possible to run 200+ mods stablely and smoothly on Oblivion, and presumably the same holds for Skyrim.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:37 am

Well the new WB team are doing a good job so far and have released 298, although i havent tried 100's of plugins :smile:

They are doing a fantastic job and I'm avidly watching their progress. Keeping an eye on Ali's JTES5Edit, too, since that code is significantly more familiar with me. I wonder if they'd ever be interested in using SkyProc assets for some of CBash, depending on how layered it is in there?..

Its entirely possible to run 200+ mods stablely and smoothly on Oblivion, and presumably the same holds for Skyrim.

If you know what you are doing, yes.

I hope I don't need the newb answer! I've been dealing with conflicts since morrowind! :wink_smile:

If you've been doing that since then then you can probably understand why my first inclination is to give the newb answer.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:25 am

They are doing a fantastic job and I'm avidly watching their progress. Keeping an eye on Ali's JTES5Edit, too, since that code is significantly more familiar with me. I wonder if they'd ever be interested in using SkyProc assets for some of CBash, depending on how layered it is in there?..

Also looking forward to TES5edit, will probably only use it for cleaning but nice to see people are working on these awesome programs. Btw Pluto i accidently disabled realistic lighting today during a rebuild with WB and dam did the lighting look bad, I immediately knew your mod wasnt activated, soon activated it and the game looked 100 times better again

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:09 am

Its entirely possible to run 200+ mods stablely and smoothly on Oblivion, and presumably the same holds for Skyrim.

--------------------

If you know what you are doing, yes. :smile:

If you've been doing that since then then you can probably understand why my first inclination is to give the newb answer. :tongue:

Exactly - I ran nearly 300 Oblivion mods at one time myself (with quite a few merged into the patch), so I know it's doable. My friend, however, just didn't have the system to be able to run that amount of mods.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:51 pm

I think some of the previous posters are erring on the side of caution.

My last Morrowind and Oblivion playthroughs had over 300 mods each (just counting esps, not texture- or mesh-only). I spent a couple of weeks putting together the setups, and merged a fair number of mods into compatible categories. At the end, both games were very stable, but it took some dedication.

From recent experience with ~150 mods in Skyrim, I've been wondering whether the same level of stability is there (yet). But I think most (or all) of my problems are from too many HQ textures. And my load times are too long.

Anyway, it comes down to several factors:
- which mods you're using, and how compatible they are with each other
- lots of scripts can cause problems
- messing around (adding for a while, then removing) many mods within the same save progression
- what your hardware specs are: high-end systems can handle a lot more of everything
- Wrye Bash and BOSS are absolutely required

I (too) often end up looking at what mods are doing with skyedit (outdated, but still works for quick checks) and the CK. That helps me determine whether I trust a mod is "safe" and compatible.

Right now, IMO, it's possible to get a stable configuration with 100+ mods if your hardware can handle it, and if you're careful about which ones you're using together, and set your load up right.

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:07 am

What is the maximum number of esp files one should be using?

I remember Oblivion had issues when the Data folder count got too large. BTW, very imformative thread for Oblivion here http://www.gamesas.com/topic/941296-bugz-oblivionexe-filedirectory-thrashing/page__st__80

I just wonder if there are concerns with Skyrim and too many mods. I wonder if merging lots of small/minor mods would be a good idea.

It depends on which mods you are using.

50 mods that add new weapons is going to have less impact on stability than 50 mods that modify vanilla cells, quests or NPC behavior, or with scripts containing OnUpdate functions, etc.

I'm currently using 65 mods without experiencing any crashes, and I'm just using the vanilla Skyrim launcher, haven't had to install Wrye Bash, BOSS, or any mod manager utility yet.

Spoiler

HighResTexturePack01.espHighResTexturePack02.espunofficial skyrim patch.espbring out your dead.esprealrain.espenhanceddistantterrain.espnodragonpriestmask.espdyenamicsmithing.espbladesfactionfix.espimprovedskillbooks.espkhajiit-mara.esppf_lightfootcompanions.espadoption.espbardscollegewithoutfix.espbooksbooksbooks2electricboogaloo.espcraftable.espcraftablescrolls.espelemicewall.espfrozen tempest.espgreybeardsrobes.espgsrdivorce.espguardsmithing.esphamoretastierfoodrecipes.esppf_deadlytraps.esplt_dragonplate_should_be_better_than_daedric.esppf_craftwoodpickaxe.espshrewsburyskyrimcookbook.espspidercontrolrod.esptailoring.espfursmithing.esphandyman.espreal glaciers v2.espkrimson'swarpaints.esptravelingargonians.espargonianrefugeesultralite.espcrazybrew.espsos - the dungeons.espsos - the wilds.espburntcorpse.espitsatrap!.espspellmasterofthetimeandspace.espimp's more complex needs.espchesko_frostfall.esplt_camping.espsmdroplittorch.espwieldablelantern.espReal Wildlife Skyrim 0.1 No Food.espDeadlyDragonsX.espfixed followers.espkatixasusablebarrels.espnoautoqueststart_thievesguild_reg.espTweaked Shouts.espEmpoweredMagic.espapocalypse - the spell package.espmore dynamic injuries.espnecromancer.espbound weapons.espDeadlyCombat.espthrowingweapons.espDeadlyCombat_NoAttackDistance.espradiance.espOccupy Skyrim.espASIS-Dependency.espASIS.espDeadlyCombat_PISE_Patch.esp

» Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:55 am

It depends on which mods you are using.

50 mods that add new weapons is going to have less impact on stability than 50 mods that modify vanilla cells, quests or NPC behavior, or with scripts containing OnUpdate functions, etc.

I'm currently using 65 mods without experiencing any crashes, and I'm just using the vanilla Skyrim launcher, haven't had to install Wrye Bash, BOSS, or any mod manager utility yet.

It really does depend im using these mods with wrye bash and my game is running very smoothly although i could probably get away with running them with the vannila launcher.

Active Mod Files:

Spoiler

00  Skyrim.esm01  Update.esm02  Imp's More Complex Needs.esm  [Version 0.24]03  Real Wildlife - IMCN.esm04  itsatrap!.esm05  Populated Cities NPCListMaster.esm06  SkyMoMod.esm07  Deus Mons.esm08  Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]09  Chesko_Frostfall.esp0A  SoS - The Dungeons.esp  [Version 1.11]0B  SoS - The Wilds.esp  [Version 1.0.2]0C  Realistic Lighting.esp0D  Realistic Lighting Patcher.esp0E  Weapons and Armor fixes.esp0F  Weapons and Armor fixes - Hacks.esp10  StaticMeshImprovementMod.esp11  Crafting300.esp12  dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp13  itsatrap!.esp14  MoreRainWindy33percentLessView.esp15  Occupy Skyrim.esp16  Real Wildlife Skyrim 0.1 IMCN.esp++  SkyMoMod_lists.esp17  SMDropLitTorch.esp18  Tamriel Compendium.esp  [Version 1.0]19  treeplanting.esp1A  SIM- NPC Additions.esp1B  SIM - NPCSUBMITTED.esp1C  IMAGINATOR - Visual Control for Skyrim.esp1D  DPArmor.esp1E  Complete Crafting Overhaul.esp1F  PISE.esp20  DeadlyDragons.esp21  BuildableHouse.esp22  Deus Mons_WithNPCs.esp23  Dragon Falls Manor.esp24  Elvenwood.esp25  Masters of Death.esp26  armored-horses.esp27  Better Dynamic Snow.esp28  CutthroatMerchantsMedium.esp29  Disable Fast Travel Permanently - Carriages cost 10x more.esp2A  Killable Children V2.2.esp2B  killable_children_qp_aventus.esp2C  killable_children_qp_nelkir.esp++  RichMerchants_Less.esp2D  detailed cities.esp2E  Populated Cities.esp2F  IMCN - Overrides.esp30  MidasSkyrim.esp31  ReneersCrimeOverhaul.esp32  Balanced_Alteraton.esp33  Balanced_Conjuration.esp34  Balanced_Destruction.esp35  Balanced_Illusion.esp36  Balanced_Restoration.esp++  Balanced_Magic_Adept.esp37  UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp38  FollowerWander2.esp39  Spousetocustomhome.esp3A  Sabretooth.esp3B  Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp  [Version 2.0]3C  WATER.esp3D  Bashed Patch, 0.esp