It seems that the debate has raged on since I was last here but unfortunatelly the thread reached its maximum post count.

I noticed that a few of you mentioned how you prefer paying $60 for a game that you own for life and how that is much better value than an MMO. Not for me it isn't, around 70% of the games I own I never play, infact I didn't even complete them for the simple reason, they weren't my cup of tea. With an MMO you usually decide during the free trial if you like it or not or certainly during your firtst months subscription. Of course if you bought the discs from the store, instead of downloading the game for free or at a reduced rate then you would feel burned.

GuildWars i have clocked in over 1000 hours (kill me now)... TF2 says 300 hours... Games like that you cannot beat in a $/time ratio ETW is at 150 hours... and older games probably a lot more

Others like L4D2 I only put in 20 hours or so... not a bad value, but nothing great

L4D2 was a flop. Imo it isnt even worth a mention

I may not be the best example because I have played a relatively small variety of games, but those which I do play, I have tried to choose well and attain as much value from as I can. Point in case... Morrowind. One time purchase of the GotY edition way back when it was first in stores, played it with countless characters over the years, and can't foresee quitting especially now that I am starting to enjoy using the CS.

I'll admit, I have played WoW in two stints... about a year and a half ago until about a year ago, and about six months ago until about two months ago. I don't care for the subscription model at all, nor as I realized, the content or the players... but that isn't even my main issue with it. As many others had debated in the previous thread, I believe, my main concern is the server-based played. Granted, it is a bit silly to discuss server vs non-server for MMOs, but I suppose I mean just for gaming in general. To the point: I have archived (and make updated archives about every week) versions of my Morrowind installation. I have the complete redistributable packages for DirectX9, .NET 3.5, Python, and everything else that Morrowind and its associated utilities need to install and run correctly. I have my operating system disk, and all necessary drivers. I don't intend to be deprived of the capability to play Morrowind at any point in the near future. But server-based games such as MMOs (WoW, etc) and games that contain DRM in the form of checking in with an online server? No thanks.

I realize that, as was also pointed out in the previous thread, I do not have "gaming rights." No developer or publisher can be mandated to allow me to install a game as many times as I would like, without internet requirements, and so forth. Nor do I expect to be catered to -- there is definitely a trend in this direction whether we like it or not. But as consumers we always retain the rights to vote with our dollars, and while I do not purchase many games (hardly any... my last three might have been Morrowind, Oblivion, and L4D2 ), I can still make the decision to not buy a game with limitations I do not like. In the case of an MMO, were I (though hopefully not!) at some point to play another, this might be paying more up front to avoid a monthly fee. But again, as consumers, those are the best ways to affect the market -- purchase true to your ideals!

Just wanted to get some numbers here so I could make a point about the cost of maintaining a server. We have 12,500 (2.5 mil / 200) subscribers per server. Each of those at a minimum is paying 12.99 a month. We'll just call it 13 - a skittle. So that's 13 * 12,500 = $162,500.

Ok, now let's try to figure out where all that money goes. Let's start with bandwidth since that may be the most difficult to figure out. A quick google search tells me a typical high speed internet bill is between 15 and 20 dollars a month. Most of those will allow at least 100 gig of downloads per month. A game like WoW needs to allow the transfer of the game files which can weigh in around 10 gig, more or less. Add to that the data transferred during gameplay, which isn't very much. We'll call it 1 gig which is being generous. In the end that's about 1/10th the bandwidth a typical ISP offers, assuming you only install the game once per month. So let's take that 20 dollars, divide that by 10 and we get 2 dollars. Honestly I doubt it's even that much but let's just roll with it.

Ok, now server maintenance. How many people does it take to maintain a server? One? Three? Five? Let's say five, which sounds a bit ridiculous to me. Well those five people need to get paid. Well http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-Server+Maintenance+Engineer/l-Macdill+Afb,+FL says the average salary of a server maintenance engineer is $75,000 per year. Maybe Blizzard is generous to their employees. Let's call it $100,000 per year. Well divide that by 12 and you get $8333 per month. Multiply that by 5 and you get $41,665. Divide that by 12,500 and you get 3.33. Add 2 dollars to that and that brings us up to $5.33 per subscriber.

Well what about the server itself? I suppose it will need parts. And it's a server hosting potentially thousands of players at once so the parts need to be high quality. Let's see, hard drive, memory, processor... Well let's just say $20,000 per month for parts. That's how much many servers cost new. So divide that by 12,500 to get 1.6, add that to 5.33 and we get a grand total of... $6.93.

Seven dollars. Under a worst case scenario. Compared to the thirteen plus people shell out every month. Do NOT tell me all that money is going to pay for the cost of running the servers. Incidentally, the cost of running http://www.gameservers.com/dedicated/ for your own game...

Blizzard doesn't own the servers, they rent from AT&T. Call up AT&T and ask how much money per month it'd cost for a server.

Well researched but there are plenty of other factors too i.e electricity bills, all staff including CEOs (it's not just about maintenance engineers, I mean who developes all the free content and updates each week), also other staff like cleaners that no body thinks of, health and pension contributions for all the staff, the list could go on and on.

True, the list does go on, but there is a decent margin left out of the monthly fee plus the cost of purchasing WoW and its expansions in the first place.

It's called making a profit.

I cant belive people pay for expansions. Its like paying for a game you already bought, which nobody else could get away with. Blizzard should`ve stuck to the RTS genre.

Don't get me wrong I'm no WoW fan, I took up the free trial and played it for about an hour and just thought WTF is this 10 million players actually like this are they mad. I left it a couple of days and thought maybe I should give it another go, just to make sure. After another hour of my life was wasted, I sat there cursing. That was the end to my adventures in the WoW universe.

To be honest I knew something was up before I even entered the game as the character creation options were so basic, you couldn't even change body shape/height etc. and all cartoony too.

.....those bastards!


:P

How is it anything like that? Let's use Bloodmoon for Morrowind as an example. You're getting new content, why would that be free?

Good thing we have this thing called a "choice" that lets us be happy. It isn't everyone's cup of tea :foodndrink: ...or beer...

Indeed. I don't think World of Warcraft is worth the monthly fee. I choose not to play it.
Other people do. They spend their money on it, and if they are enjoying it it's not going to waste.
I paid $40 for the Guild Wars Trilogy and I'm perfectly happy with my decision. Everybody wins.
Now, if somebody was spending $12.99 a month out of my pocket to play World of Warcraft, then I'd be pissed.

Ravin

Well if I was them I hell are sure I would stick with MMO.

There's a line between making a profit and milking unnecessary extra money from the users. :shrug:

Tell me did you buy the DLCs for Oblivion or FO3, if so then why, if you feel that way? plus expansions add new areas to the game world, so you could argue that it's similar to buying a sequel, e.g. GoW2.

Perhaps you need to be more careful about the games you buy
Most games I'm not sure about I wait until they're in the 3 games for ?10 section at my local store
To get as much play out of an MMO as I have out of MW would cost me about ?1000

Unecessary extra money, didn't you know that capitalism is based on making as much money as possible.? There are things in your life that milk you a lot more than any MMO could, your wife for example only kidding. I mean should companies have a cap on how much they're allowed to earn? Most of us live in wealthy countries and because of this shouldn't be surprised, if we have to pay a little more for things, especially when it comes to leasure and besides the monthly fees aren't exessive.

Cap wealth? :blink:

Isn't that what you need to have to go to a top private school?

Yes, I know, and I consider that a bad thing. :shrug: But even in that system, there are those who simply cross the line.

Also, the original idea was "Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible paying the highest wages possible", while along the way it transformed into "Make the worst quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible paying the lowest wages possible."

So you think companies like Blizzard have crossed the line and what line is that - yours? The line as you put it is all relative. To the 10 million WoW players (they're all mad I tell you) Blizzard hasn't crossed the line.

Frankly, I have no issue with what they charge. They have the right to charge what they want. However, I won't spend that money monthly. Simple economics.

By doing this, they hit the bigger audience, and everything in video games is about money.