Obsidian Entertainment developed the game, not Bethesda. Bethesda published the game, they had nothing to do with this game's development process. Obsidian took the Fallout3 game engine and created the game around it. Bethesda published the game which is what puts the game into print. If Obsidian says the game is done Bethesda says okay and presses the discs. If there was something wrong with the actual assembly line of discs or in the process of when the discs were pressed then that would be Bethesda's fault. All the problems people have been having indicates a bad developmental process which would be completely Obsidian's fault. Could there be something wrong with discs? Could something have happened that caused a bad pressing? Yes, anything could have happened but it would seem that out of all the problems it looks like the in-game bugs stem directly from the software and not the hardware.

It's largely Obsidian's fault, as they're well established as the worst development team in the business, but Bethesda as publisher has to share blame here. They greenlit the game to get duplicated in the state it is.

Bethesda gets the green light from Obsidian. True that Bethesda should've taken a look into the final product but the point is Bethesda shouldn't have to. Obsidian told Bethesda it is finished which means that Obsidian gave the green light for it to be pressed. Bethesda is just the middle man in this situation.

It seems if Bethsheba was the publisher, they made the weenie marketing decision to release the game before it was finished. In reality everyone's at fault. We're at fault too for giving them money to support the corrupt enterprise

The problem with your argument is that a search for Fallout New Vegas will direct your to Bethesdas' website. If they are willing to take the ear full about all of the bugs and problems then that's what they get. If Obsidian has so much control over the game why don't they have the forums underneath their name now? Bethesda is the only people who seem to take care of the bugs so I don't understand how you are telling us to stop complaining to Bethesda. They are acting like they are handling the bugs and issues so they are just as responsible as Obsidian is.

Lastime I checked it the game has Bethesda's name all over it. So when you put your name on something you stand behind it, and ultimately are responsible period.

it's hard to put all the blame on Obsidian considering they got a broken game engine to begin with from bethesda. F:NV is nothing more then a quick cash grab by bethesda.

First off I didn't tell you to stop complaining to Bethesda. I said don't blame them for it. What you people don't understand is that Bethesda didn't develop it or had anything to do with the development. They didn't release an unfinished game, they were tricked by Obsidian into releasing an unfinished game. It also seems that you need to take a closer look into my more previous posts as it explains a lot more than you seemed to have read. The reason Fallout New Vegas is listed under Bethesda is because Bethesda owns the rights to the franchise. That is why we're all complaining to them about the bugs because Obsidian won't have forums on the subject since Bethesda chose them to develop it and only develop it. Rights were not transferred. Everything Bethesda reads on these forums gets transferred to Obsidian because the developers take care of patches and post-launch bug work. Once again, Bethesda was the middle man who released a game that they were told was finished and ready for sales.

Correction on the bolded statement. Judging from the textures, models etc used in FO:NV (minus obvious new ones), FO:NV was created using the FO:3 G.E.C.K.

What we paid for was a massively oversized Fallout 3 Mod.

There has obviously been some engine tweaking due to the ton of bugs in this game.

Other than a few new things, this is a FO:3 mod. It was smart to do this, imo, because it allows Beth to release a new FO game in a mere two years since FO:3. If they continue this, and I wouldn't have a problem with it, we could get new FO games every 2 years or so instead of 4-6 years. That is, until they decide to switch to Id Tech 5 and ditch that piece of [censored] Gamebryo.

If you hire a company to build something and the building is not up to standard do you blame the company you hired or the contractors they used.
We know who made the game but we also know who owns the game and who is ultimately responsible for it and that is bethesda.
If there is anything wrong with F:NV then blame Bethesda and they can take it back to Obsidion if they want but the blame lies with Bethesda and should be directed at them.

This game is not a cash grab by anyone. It's obvious that FO:NV was made with love and passion, not by Bethesda correct. But I have no doubt that both Obsidian and Bethesda puts a great deal of passion into this game. Otherwise it wouldent be possible to make a game like this, if money were the only motivation. Yea, it has some bugs, but when those get fixed, this game is WIN

Both are to blame, it doesnt matter if obsidian solely produced the game which im sure Bethesda had some part in it. It is still their product with their name on it, and im sure they at least reviewed the game before putting it out they are not just going to put out a game that obsidian says its done. I would say Bethesda is far more to blame it was their engine and their game, so if they were foolish enough to put out this game on a whim i will blame Bethesda over Obsidian.

People just don't understand. The Fallout 3 engine is a part of the G.E.C.K. How do you think the G.E.C.K. is used? Magic? It is used using the Fallout3 engine. If you people had read my original post thoroughly you all would have noticed that I didn't put the blame solely on Obsidian which makes almost everyone's point of view in the argument invalid because you are basically arguing a point that I, the person who posted this, already made light of as you are now making a fool of yourself by being redundant. Second of a contractor who pays working to build something is going to take the blame. The builders usually then get fired and the contractors find someone else to perform the build. Your argument is invalid because in a real world example the people who hire the people to build something of that magnitude will fire the workers that failed to make a good project. Surely people aren't that blind that they can't read the original post or simply the see only what they want to see. In my original post I said Bethesda has a part in the blame but Obsidian's part is the biggest fault and when you complain about shoddy workmanship you blame the developer, not the people that hired the developer. Yes, like I blatantly said in my original post, Bethesda should've taken a closer look at the finished product but Obsidian should've had a better finished product to begin with.

It doesn't matter anyway so I'm just going to let you guys think however you want to think. I laid down the facts for you all and I'm sure that some of you probably misunderstood some stuff but I'm leaving this thread to the trolls. See you around.

It doesn't matter anyway so I'm just going to let you guys think however you want to think. I laid down the facts for you all and I'm sure that some of you probably misunderstood some stuff but I'm leaving this thread to the trolls. See you around.

If you honestly believe they were "tricked" then you are fooled. These companies are in bed together and in constant contact with each other. Plus this isn't the first game for either company and why didn't they learn from the Fo3 problems (which have yet to be addressed I might add)? Lets say you are right and they just blindly take Obsidion's work for it, then they are even more to blame. What fools fail to do their own quality control before releasing this monstrosity to the litteral world. They slathered their "good" name all over the packages and merchandise and are the ones reaping the undeserving rewards (yours and my $$$$$$CASH$$$$$$) from it. I'm not fooled. If they would have listened to us after the EPIC failure of Fallout3, ditched the Havok engine (barfs at the thought of) and fixed that game, they wouldn't have to crap themselves trying to get patch fixes to the entire world on the F'ING PREMIER WEEK IT'S RELEASED just so half (or more) of the loyal fans who dished out a crap ton of money could even play the D**N thing! God I miss WOW!

Listen up people. The issue here is that this is not the fist time this has happened. This is a Mirror image of the EPIC failure of the Fallout3 GOTY crashes only it's a bigger mirror with an uglier person staring back. This is just the core game. No DLC, no expantions. My experiance is first 2.5 hr of game play = 4 crashes that required a hard restart and I wasn't even able to complete the very first main quest! So my experiance is an unplayable, super expensive coster with a comic book and some cards. I'm not the only one. These fourms are packed and I mean packed just in the first few days after release with people saying they can't play the da*n thing. That is unexceptable at any level of development. You don't have to be a mechanic to know that when someone drives a flaming engine on three wheels not to sell it as a new car. I'm not down playing Obsidions accountability but Bethesda DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT OF IGNORANCE! If you can't vouch for your product then you have NO business selling it for profit... PERIOD! It happened with Oblivion, it happened with Fallout3, it's happened with FoNV and if we are not heard it will happen with the next game. Quit being fooled, stop lining their pockets with your money for something thats not even worth your time. Be heard!

Please come vote at my poll and post at "Bethesda Doesn't Care" thread.

This is a BS argument. Bethesda didn't make Gamebryo, but the games they've put out on it aren't nearly as broken as NV. Fallout 3 and Oblivion in particular are stability gems compared to NV.

Using the logic that Fallout: NV was a mod of Fallout 3 that would make Fallout 3 a mod of Oblivion.. just because you reuse the engine doesn't make it a mod. The Unreal engine's used all over the place but it doesn't mean that every game that uses it is a mod of Unreal Tournament haha. They've added like 30 hours+ of voiced dialog in New Vegas (with quite a few bigger name actors), added an entire new map with like twice as much density, a ton of new factions, a faction system, the whole hardcoe system. Counter-strike was a mod. New Vegas is not. Reusing technology is normal and encouraged in other industries (including non-game programming), why would you want to rebuild and, thereby increase your development costs when you can make what, in the majority opinion, is an excellent game using existing technology?

it is bethesda fault if they had of played the darn game first they would have known it is a peace of sh** . If they had of played it first they would have know not to put their name on the game.

Why are people not getting this:

Bethesda KNEW the game was broken.
THEY DIDN'T CARE

They aren't blindsided by all the bugs, they just knew it wouldn't affect sales.

It will affect future sales. At least from me. I will no longer pre-order. I will no longer buy a game on release date. Well, lesson learned.

Fallout New Vegas is now one of the world's most expensive drink coasters. At least until ALL of the patches are out and working.....probably around the time the GOTY edition is out.

i agree.
it seems like obsidian didnt even test the game at all,like the first ten mins in the game i already noticed so much that should have been fixed n now i cant play at all due to the whole corrupt file sh**.this new patch there working on will probably have to be the size of the game lol

I know they reused the technology, I never refuted that. It was wise of them to do so. I stated, if you had read correctly, that Obsidian had used many of the models, textures and etc from Fallout 3 which is a really quick shortcut. Anyone with a G.E.C.K. from Fallout 3 will be able to create a mod that is exactly the same as Fallout: NV minus V/O work and music, because evidence suggests that the G.E.C.K. was used to create FO:NV due to the overwhelming reuse of FO3 resources.

For example, Halo:ODST was created upon the foundation of Halo 3's engine yet it is mostly comprised of completely original textures, models etc with very little being reused. I never stated that using the G.E.C.K. was a bad thing either, it allows us to get a new FO faster and costs Bethesda less money. I completely agree with this concept. What I don't agree with is the amount of copypasta in this game being called "new".

The anologies that you make in your paragraph have very little merit in this conversation. Fallout 3 a mod of Oblivion? Fallout 3 is a completely original game, Fallout New Vegas is not.

You completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make.