Why doesn't karma match up for stealing and combat? I gain karma for killing certain people, or, at the very least, don't lose karma for killing them, but I always lose karma for stealing from them...WTF is that all about? Are there also people you lose karma for killing, but gain karma for stealing from them? Are we to assume that stealing, as an act, is always evil (sorry Robin Hood..), even though you can murder in the name of good using the same set of rules? For a game that touts it's morality as a central play mechanic, this seems a little off. So far, it seems as though you have to turn evil if you want to be any kind of thief, even if you want to steal from only bad people. FO3 wasn't like this at all, in that the Super Mutants, Raiders, and Enclave could be pilfered from liberally without taking a karma hit. I find this situation to be a little limiting, not to mention some strange moral commentary from Bethseda. *minor spoiler alert* For example, if you decide to go commando and wipe out all the Caesars from a campsite to free some hostages, you won't lose any karma for shooting them, but you will lose karma for looting the camp once everyone is dead! Not to mention that you can take anything a person was carrying, but not objects that are sitting right next to them...Maybe this is just a new set of rules in place to make being a "good" character more challenging to maintain.

I think the reason you lose karma for stealing from certain evil characters is because you can also be allied with those evil characters (thinking of the powder gangers, in this example). So stealing from your friends is immoral, and since the game can only tell is something is owned and not whether its owner is good, evil, or alive, you lose karma. In Fallout 3 you didn't run into this, since the enclave and such were always hostile, no matter what you did.

I see what you're saying, but that still doesn't make any sense. Your reputation with different game factions doesn't seem to have anything to do with the karma reaction for killing them. Stealing should follow these same rules, instead of always being evil.

Stealing is stealing. The end.

Actually not. Why take a karma hit after you kill all the Powder Gang in Goodspring? I loot their belongings , i am not stealing .

I agree I think the server karma loss penalty for taking loot from the 'bad guys' it is idiotic. I mean you kill the bad guys and to the victor goes the spoils. This world suffer a catastrophic nuclear holocaust there is no such thing as good or evil. Just survival. And after a battle on hardcoe and I am out of stimpacks. I will take the stimpack or doc's bag lying on top of the table. To get a karma hit for just plain survival is idiotic. Heck I like playing the 'good guys' and in Fallout 2 & 3 karma gain and loss was plain and simple.

Why this idiotic course of a moral narrow view I can only guess some moral dev. moron wants to make a point. As to what have no idea, yet try telling that to the slaver who is trying to kill you.

(karma or not) Stealing is a sin!!

Well tbh I am abit shocked to see this thread I have seen countless other rpgs etc where people flame alot because you can steal anything (gothic is a good example) now people are angry because stealing makes a impact on the npcs you steal from Oo

I'm not annoyed that stealing affects the game world, if anything, I think it should affect things in more ways than it does now. If you can kill someone and gain karma, you should also be able to steal from them and gain karma. If you lose no karma for killing someone, you should lose no karma for stealing from them. I'm annoyed that the morality in the game isn't consistent, which makes the conditions of certain moral labels seem really arbitrary. If you see the term "steal" over an object in the game world, you will always take a karma hit for swiping the object. That's what I take issue with. The new reputation system would be perfect balancing tool here, because it would make sense that you would always lose reputation with a group for stealing from them, even if you were gaining karma (the same way it works with killing). Eventually they would catch on to your thieving ways, you would be vilified by that community, and they would attack you on sight. If killing is a sometimes permissible moral act, then stealing should be as well. RPGs have a long history of good natured thieves, but this game doesn't allow such a play style.

How do you check your karma?

Wow, thanks for clearing that up.

Killing is killing. The end. I too can make obvious statements that don't directly answer the original dilemma brought up in this thread.

The point is the inconstancy with the karma system in regards to other immoral actions that are not taken into account. You can kill someone, loot their corpse and not lose karma. Yet, if you kill someone and loot their footlocker, you lose karma. It's inconsistent.


http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1123510-lose-karma-by-stealing-from-enemies-intended/

It's under the stats section in the pipboy. Look for the "General" tab and hit the R key.

Damn it, aren't the 35 threads we have about this enough? ><

If I hear that straw-man "Stealing is stealing" argument one more time, I'm going to throw a kitten through a window.

Ok I'll have to double check. When I went to stats and pressed square (ps3) I only saw my reputatios.