Indeed. I have gotten to the point of just avoiding the Fallout NV forums because of all the Obsidian bashing that goes on over there.

I loved KOTOR, Mass Effect and Origins but after that it went downhill with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2. I have no hope in Mass Effect 3 being anything other then a waterdown Mass Effect 2 with new features and more false attempts at adding in RPG elements into the game. It's kinda sad I thought Bioware was a good studio that could've been the best in it's genre but nope that's not going to happen, they will always be 2nd fiddle to BGS and I don't see them ever challenging them at all.

The only romance I've thought was decent in BW games is Samara. And even then it is not meant to be.

Yeah people [censored] too much "wahhh Lonesome road is delayed" if it wasnt "wahhh its not up to my standards, should have been delayed" and then you have the people who thank Bethesda instead for Obsidians work.
Obsidian are definately joing 1st with bethesda as my favorite rpg devs. I dont see why bugs are such an issue, fallout NV was patchd quite quickly. I have less bugs in NV than I did in F3. Aplpha protocal got flak for bugs I had 2 one was a freeze the other Brayko froze on the stage. Which was a blessing more than anything It certainly didnt deserve the marks it got. I mean seriously what other games have that much choice and impact (aside from the witcher) ? A dialouge system like that ? Worst part was the ending hinted at a sequal, which we will never see. Apparently the sequal planned to import choices too (atleast thats what i heared from others). Damn im sad its not getting a sequal. It could have been so great.

Well it has amazing gameplay. I've beaten it 6 or 7 times simply because of the gameplay and I usually don't play through any game more than once.

It takes the key elements of third person shooters like Gears and Uncharted and puts an additional layer of complexity on top with the various powers (I do love warp detonates). I enjoy TPS games like the aforementioned, but I enjoyed ME2's combat *even more* and it's a rare thing that an action RPG features combat that is just as fun and engaging as core action titles.

You just have to look at games like Fallout3 and Alpha Protocol to see how poorly the gameplay is handled there.

I've been waiting for a thread like this. To start, I used to adore Bioware. I though Dragon Age Origins was a masterpiece and one of the best games that I've ever played. That all changed with Dragon Age 2. The game was horrible but I still held out hope for Bioware. It quickly disappeared when I saw how much conflict there was on the forums. Their forums are run like a totalitarian state. They ban and close threads that so much as say the games could use improvement, not to mention how rude the devs have been. Stanley Woo has been closing threads that criticized DA2 while leaving the really devoted fan ones open, Gaider has been one of the most arrogant people on the site (do you have any way to justify insulting your fans like this:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_JcdhkZu_C3zPFCRQtuSD5HtQ-Nyj3ZhLEnmyYEA15nobap2jOg) and the mods on the site don't even give a reason for banning you.

Another reason I hate Bioware is for their community. If you want to know why, here's some examples why: http://www.somethingawful.com/d/weekend-web/bioware-social-forums.php


I'm surprised no one is talking about the policy of banning you from playing your Bioware games if you criticize Bioware.

Agreed. There are somethings that Bioware does that make me cringe a little but overall I love Bioware (even if their community is usually fanatic), as DA O (and DA II even if less) and the ME series are among my favourite games ever

:blink: Cause it's reality...you can check a history book for RDRs lore

Bioware svcks eggs.

I can't stand playing a game from them anymore. I played mass effect two and enjoyed that for awhile, but never finished it because even on the hard setting, I felt that it was way too easy. And I am someone who usually plays on normal mode. I agree that they are spending way too much of their time on the romance aspect. Especially sad when my friend who has no girlfriend is excited to see "the scene" in mass effect 2.

Soon Bioware will have made their own genre. RPP- Role Playing pormography.

Yeah me popping out and shooting from a chest high wall was complex. Powers dont do [censored] all, unless you jsut spam warp.

:rofl:
I play them both, unlike mass effect they have good fun gameplay. Fallout has balence between player and character skill and AP is about character skill.

In fallout I can still snipe, its just alot worse with few points in guns, my characters play differently. How is AP poorly handled ? If I play a character who has all his points in stealth and technology I shouldnt be expecting some marksman. It played fine for me, unless your playing it like an idiot (angry joe) and think its gears then gameplay isnt an isse. Hell it is much better than mass effect. When did mass effect give me an option to lay traps ? An option to use stealth ? Oh wait it didnt EVER. In ME2 itwas further streamlined by each mission having chest high walls and some mechs/mercs to fight.

Fallout 3 abosrbed so much time from me. Much more than all the bioware games I have played COMBINED. Thats just fallout 3, new vegas is just, damn. I would be playing it now, but im waiting to see the new perks in LR before making a new character, that plays differently.

I don't object to the romance elements: I actually quite like them really, though I would agree that they can sometimes be a little intrusive.

There are things I genuinely dislike, though. First is their approach to DLC: where Bethesda seemed to learn from their gaffe with Horse Armour, Bioware hasn't and are still releasing stuff that's probably at most an afternoon's work that people are expected to pay for. And some people do seem to willingly pay for it, but they really need to look at how much it's costing them in bad PR since an increasing number of people now see their DLC as a rip-off and don't even look at it.

And then there's the DA2 fiasco. I'm slightly loath to weigh in as in some quarters it's become as trendy to bash DA2 as it has Oblivion, but it does seem to be an example of what can happen to a software project with weak project management: far too much time was spent on "fun stuff" like daft combat animations and these multi-wave attacks, and not enough on the real bread and butter of this type of game such as new areas and the like. I don't care how proud they are of their half dozen stock dungeon levels, I was heartily sick of seeing the same areas over and over again long before I'd finished the game. I thought DA:O was bad with area re-use in Denerim and the random encounters, but this was terrible. Strictly speaking it's not a major part of the game mechanic but I was heartily sick of it pretty quickly. The experimental art direction was also rather misguided as it seemed to be an impressive feat of how to use the most modern graphical generation techniques to create something ugly and uninspiring.

They really need to get their act together and release games that feel that they've been carefully crafted and put together with pride rather than something that feels as if it's the end result of just mucking about, and if they continue down the DLC route, to learn from Bethesda and Obsidian and do something that's actually worthwhile: I rather object to spending a tenner on something that doesn't even last me an afternoon.

Imagine if Bethesda and Bioware teamed up.

Biothesda presents:

Skyrim: The Dragon Massage Effect! Commander Dovahkiin is a sixy Nord, travelling through an open space environment to meet infinite bisixual dragon companions!

:mage:

*Alduin appears*

Dovahkiin: I wanna be a http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSazR8yuD7nzb2Eny_iadk_74u92JZIg-9SngGA67eO43WYgOWsqA.
Alduin: Tis cold in my realm all alone.

I lol'd at this:
http://i.imgur.com/a9yG4.png

I knew about that. There are other references to devs being stupid. You already linked what I would have linked. Like Laidlaw talking about fem hawkes walk (funny now we now they didnt put efforit into environments) or one of the righters thinking Merrill is cute (Merrill is stupid/niave not cute) and talking about nomming her head.

*shudders*

Im suprised at the amount of hate Bioware is getting here. Usually I see more people supporting them than hating them.

That's true, a lot of games these days don't even seem to waste time with obligatory movie-style romances. Also, I didn't know you liked slugs.


This is the only reason I still buy bioware products.

Personally, I'm sick of bioware's current story/character choices. They've been adding romances to the point that in DA2, every party member except your own sibling is Hawke-sixual. It's utterly absurd that a character's sixuality is a mere throwaway line to justify them boinking the protagonist.

As for their storylines, I'm tired of having to travel to the four corners, fix the locals problem, and gain the mcguffin/ally/pickachu needed to unlock the way to the final battle, which will also be a point of no-return. One of DA2's redeeming traits is that it actually doesn't feel like your being made to travel to the four corners and reach the cosmic whathaveyous. Each act in the storyline has a set ultimate goal that doesn't just exist to pave the way for the final battle, but instead unravels the twine on a figurative torch sitting above a powder keg. It was a nice reprieve from their usual storylines, even if they didn't abandon their normal character archetypes. Another thing, I wish they would stop repeating the same character archetypes, no more Carth Alenkos, bring more Hanharr's.

This helped solidify my hatred of Bioware and it's community:

http://i.imgur.com/Olc5C.jpg

WTF?...:facepalm:

Bioware is, just like any contemporary game maker/developer, focused on money,current projects and indulging casual gamers' needs, while simultaneously crapping on older games and gamers. NWN/NWN2 players know full well what I'm talking about.

Yeah that creeped me out. But it got too much when I saw a guy anolyse Talis sweat, and a person make a post speculating on how asari would have six with penetration.

I actually hate them more than valve fans, sure I hear "the cake is a lie" 20000000000000000000 times, and HL (and every other valve game) is extreeeeeemely overated. But damn they arent that bad.


Its a home made (I assume) Talidoll...

Just mentioning HL delayed Episode 3 by another 8 months; thanks. :disguise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im6yRpQrsaY

The key in DAO is to catch which lines are flirtacious, which for me, was hardly a problem. Saying things like "You can probe me anytime" to Morrigan, for instance, can activate the romance flag, and that applies to the rest (even Zev, who's otherwise a lech and makes no exception to who he goes for ). Personally, in my first game of DAO, I never activated the romance for Morri, Lei, or Zev, and my second game with a female PC, just as deftly started nothing with Al. Ditto for ME2. Femshep may always talk with a flirting tone to Jacob which is nothing short of irritating, but the romance for him (and everyone else) won't actually activate until you pick the right line of dialogue.

Compared to, say, ME1, where just treating your crew like human beings will eventually get you an angry confrontation from two supposedly spurred people later in the game, or BG2 where just recruiting Jaheira, Aerie, and/or Viconia is enough to yanked into them, DAO and ME2 were improvements.

This. Bioware focuses on dialogue and story more than anything, and does so without cutting anything from the combat. (at least in ME) I personally like the characters from the Mass Effect series, excluding the generic Miranda and Jacob from the 2nd. I think characters such as Liara, Tali, and Thane were quite interesting. Even Ashley was an interesting character, with her strong racist side and all. And character development is very successful.

I find Mass Effect a good game, although obviously streamlined since the first. But my all time favorite Bioware game has always been Dragon Age Origins. And it is solely for the portrayal of human relationships. They are extremely good at creating likable characters. My personal favorites were Morrigan, Alistair and Sten. For a time while I was playing the game, I felt those 3 were real people. Like some people I knew from back in school or something. I had literally built a virtual relationship with them. And the reason behind is the ever so successful dialogue in the game. As a female character, I would engage in romance with Alistair, and a while later Morrigan would start to mock me about it, or Wynne tell me of her disapproval. Or I would play a male character and romance Morrigan and witness a party banter between Leliana and Morrigan about it where they would get in a catfight over my character. Or Zevran would betray me and try to kill me, and all the party members would have something to say about it... And the interesting personal backstories of every single character; Zevran who grew up in a brothel so he developed a twisted idea about love, Morrigan whose mother never showed her any love so she grew harsh and heartless, Alistair who slept in a haystack in the stable of his own castle and was sent off to the chantry by his aunt who didn't love him, and didn't let his uncle show him any love, even when they were the only family Alistair ever knew... Notice I'm gazing off again like they are real people... Needless to say Bioware accomplished true art with this game, DA2 is not even worth mentioning though, it was utter rubbish compared to this masterpiece.

You know, it is possible to learn game design lessons from a game, without your game becoming "like" it. Even a bad game can still have good ideas, concepts, and features in it. Cherry-picking those out can be a good way to improve game design. (It's even possible to learn things NOT to do from games. And you can still say "One lesson we learned from Game X is...." Again, without your game becoming "like" Game X.)


So.... yeah.

-----

Personally, I've played Bioware games for a good while now. KotoR 1 & 2, ME 1 & 2, Jade Empire, Dragon Age 1..... I've liked them. They're good games. (I didn't bother with DA2, because DA1 didn't excite me enough to want to play a sequel, even if it was a good sequel. Yeah, DA:O was a good game, but it wasn't really my thing.... the combat got a bit tedious with repetition.)

And yeah - I liked ME2. Sure, it wasn't quite as good as ME1 overall, but it was still a good game. (In particular, even though it's story was a bit weaker than ME1's, I liked how they improved the "roleplay" bits... the dialogue & decisionmaking parts. I thought it was a stronger "RPG" than ME1 in some ways. Ways that had nothing to do with superficial stuff like the combat system or how cluttered the inventory was.)

So, for me, Bioware's a good company. Yeah, they had one weak game (DA2). But that can happen to any game company.

My main issue is with David Silverman.

However, people are too quick on jumping into the "romances = GARBAGE GAME" bandwagon. ME, KOTOR, BG and DA had some good ideas, dialogues and other stuff for example.

EDIT: Actually, pretty much what Kiralyn above me has said. :foodndrink: