QFFE.

Eh? What announcements? The last "official" announcement was near the middle of December. It is now the middle of January. All we're asking for is an update on whether or not it's gonna be ready by at least the end of January since Beth is obviously being dikes about it now with "31st of January is still January". That's all. A simple yes, it will be done by the end of January or no it won't. Why is this important? So that we don't have to come here every day and read through tons of garbage in the hopes of catching a glimpse of a hint of a news update.

I think the point a lot of people are missing here about the frustration with having no CK yet is because a lot of us wouldn't have bothered buying the game at launch if we weren't promised it asap.

I'm used to games coming out with problems, I think everyone is finally coming around to that. I don't generally buy games at release anymore because of that unless there is a toolset of some sort that is supposed to be included with the game. This..is where the frustration is coming from.

Very good points Sarovorn.

That and the fact that we would like to have at it and try and fix some of the bugs ourselves, many of us have zero interest in the darned Steam Workshop and would rather have the CK without it, as we want to fix our bugs and have zero intention of ever going within a mile of the Steam Workshop.

Is it February yet? And please, nobody trot out the "they said early in JAN". Yes they did once. They were wrong. You've never been flipping wrong before? You were never late to work, late for a date, late for school, late with a paper, late for dinner? Did 10,000 people call you a liar afterwards?

While that is a good point, another good point is to never, ever, ever buy anything up front as a standalone product, and then complain that you didn't get other, promised things thrown in that aren't on the bill of sale. Don't do it when you pay for a car, don't do it when you pay for a house. Don't do it when paying for ANYthing. If the thing you're buying isn't worth it on it's own merits, if you buy it hoping for other, promised things later that make it acceptable for you, you're a svcker

In other words, if Skyrim is only worthwhile if there's a CK, you fooled yourself. You paid for the game. I don't care if the CK was "promised". You paid for the game, your receipt says the game, nothing about the CK. Pay for what is delievered, never anything that you can't live without that will be provided later without even so much as a non-binding handshake. if the CK was out and you paid for the game+CK and you can't get it, that's one thing. This is another

That said, th CK will, I am sure, be delivered- but don't cry me a river about "we were promised, this game isn't enough without it". Bull. Your purchase says it was enough for you.

Why? You should always buy the game based on what you get at the time of buying it.

What I find so absurd is that Todd Howard boasted in numerous interviews that the CK we get was the same one used by Bethesda to create most of the content. They've been building this game for the last 5 years. Presumably with the same CK as Todd pointed out. What on earth is the hold up then? It can only be the stupid integration with Steam Workshop. Which nobody want except Bethesda and Valve by the way.

gstaff clearly sais Beginning IN january, not Beginning OF january


http://gamesas.com/ said on http://www.bethblog.com/2012/01/12/skyrim-awesomesauce/comment-page-1/#comment-228395 :

I’m Serious, the blog post says “Beginning in January” not “Beginning of January.

Yeah, he's a regular politician. The beginning of January is long gone anyway so that silly argument is moot. He could have also said "Beginning in mid January" or "Beginning at the end of January" yet he (or Bethesda) chose to be deliberately vague about it. Which would have been okay if they would just talk to us.

Its the mid of January, most likely CK will be released on about 1 week.. if Bethesda sais January they really mean January.

In my opinion, this is a precise description of the 'feeling of entitlement' people are taling about. It would be OK if they'd just talk to us? I don't agree. If they say they will do it, they should do it. They don't owe you constant contact. Making regular excuses doesn't make it all better; you're saying that you'd feel like you had some control over things if they gave you regular updates. But by the same token, you're building things up into a situation in which you're being deliberately misled. That's an immature standpoint considering that the timeframe they gave you most recently hasn't even expired

I saw, for years, the type of complete breakdown beteween developer and fanbase that occurs when the developer does the fanbase give constant contact to the principle developer. The man replied to posts personally for hours at a time, almost every day. And the fanbase took the opportunity to accuse him of bias, lies, and general deception. And now, he has practically nothing to do with the fanbase and lets other people develop the games for the most part. The titles have suffered, and the fans are 100% to blame because they act like spoiled brats and expect the devs to grin and bear it; they can't behave themselves

I'm not asking for a daily Q&A session with the lead developer mate. The have a "What we're working on" thread over in general which is locked so only the Admin can post replies. It has been updated once in almost 2 months. This is what I wish people who jump on the "why do you want daily feedback?" bandwagon would come to realise. We don't want daily feedback. We just want more regular updates. It's not a question of what they owe us, it's just polite.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1332958-skyrim-creation-kit-early-january/

Yeah, ain't that a surprise. People saying the same thing in different topics about the same issue. Consistency. How bizarre.

As I recall Oblivion's CS was released two weeks after the game's release and FO3's GECK was released two months after that game's release. FONV's GECK came almost two months later as well in spite of the fact it was basically a port of the FO3 GECK and had to rev'd later (much to the dismay of modders for the confusion that ensued there.)

There may be more to the "new" Creation Engine than we have realized thus far in spite of all the mods that have already been released without the CK.

I for one don't feel the need for Bethesda to hold my hand through the process of either the CK's release or the upcoming patches and am quite satisfied that they seem to be taking the time to get it right now.

Just read through the forums and see how many people have been complaining 'I just wish they had postponed the release of the Skyrim until they got it right?'....

The CK is a gift from Bethesda, no where on the game box or game literature does it say that it's included in the purchase price.

Rock on, man. Oh well, gives me more time to plan my excessively long mod that'll likely take a year or more to complete.

And had they stated that there would be no CK we would not be waiting anxiously for its release. Instead they created expectation by the promise of a gift. Then they turned around and sold their fans out to Valve so that they could make even more money with the content that modders will create by integrating it with Steam Workshop. In the end the fans lose all the way because we'll have to pay for the best mods. Bethesda got greedy and sold us out. Period.

being the date that it is now, it's a perfectly valid question to ask about progress on the release.

If it wasn't a valid question, this thread would not have a response from Gstaff.

The OP wasn't bit@hing or complaining, or demanding or being anything other than curious about something we are ALL looking forward to.

Even the reply Gstaff gave in this thread is enough to keep me happy for now. Game studios the world over have LONG AGO learned not to give set in stone release dates on ANYTHING, and for good reason.

At the same time, there's no need for the community to White Knight on behalf of Bethesda when someone asks how progress is coming along on something the entire community is waiting for with baited breath.

there can be a happy medium, no?

No, but they did call me and ask what was up. LOL

Beggining in january means from Jan to Dec at most.

I agree with most of what you have said here, especially about the constant fan/dev communication that can only lead to disaster when no real action is taking place. I do not however, consider it foolish to believe you are going to get something that was promised when the party involved has delivered on this promise previously (oblivion). I also do not believe it is immature to have the standpoint of being impatient when given roundabout timelines when someone/something is already late delivering on what is promised.

TBH I hope they've shelved the CK in favour of fixing the worst of the bugs; no point having a construction kit for a game that stops working after so much playing IMO.

This is the day that TES6 will be release actually.