No, but the problem with gray civil wars is that you might realistically say that it's not your problem. I guess I just like playing hero types.

Heh. Exactly. It's NOT my problem. Let someone else fix it. Beth.... when they eventually do TESVI and decide canon.

Well, I think you can still do be neutral and resolve things in some ideal way, as far as the choices in the peace council goes. A player who chooses to be part of the civil war might find it more appropriate to decimate the other side. You're not forced to do that.

It depends on the character. Not all toons will care. The character I've enjoyed the most so far, though, was the Nord who came home and felt like Talos had sent her there to free Skyrim and save it from the dragons. That felt pretty damn heroic.

I'm playing an Altmer now, as anti-Thalmor resistance, and that's much more difficult. I also played a thief/ assassin who felt like she had done her part by taking out Mede and had no interest in being a grunt soldier for either side. Skyrim gives you a lot of flexibility, if not complete flexibility.

As for RL and games... to me the stories that are most compelling are those that revolve around human drama. That's exactly why I like the civil war quest line, and why I'm not that interested in most fantasy and sci fi. You can have both, of course. GRRM's approach is that space ships or castles are basically furniture and the meat of the story is in human weakness, ambitions, and relationships. That's the kind of storytelling I prefer.

Definitely an each-to-her-own thing. I actually prefer books and games with NO HUMANS period. Unfortunately, most authors and game publishers don't produce that.

Games and books with no or few humans still have human conflict. I mean, everything streams from the human basis of understanding and psyche. You can read, say, a very dark elf centric story in D&D, but the psychology and relationships are still essentially human. What else can we reference? Rabbits? Hell, even when we watch cartoons about rabits, they're anthropomorphized. You could have a whole season of Star Trek focusing on nothing but the Klingons, but yet... they'd still revolving around concepts already known on earth.

Definitely. And some authors do this very well, using the very foreign-ness of the setting to bring those things out. My eyes just start to glaze over with all the pantheons, the unpronounceable names and metaphysics. Which is probably why I only go so far in TES and Dune fandom. When Herbert starts talking about the Golden Path, that's about when I start looking around for a history book. And reading the TES lore forum can be a mind-bending experience, not in a good way (for me).

Where I thought the civil war quest was lacking was in a feeling of reward and consequence.

You're both right of course. I just like my "humanocentricity" covered very thickly by other races and pantheons and worlds. I actually manage that fairly well in TES games.... and in WoW.

The civil war had none of the horror and brutality of a war. How often in past history have the armed forces of opposing sides ravaged the civilian sectors of the enemies? The Free mercenary companies that preyed on the common people during Hundred Years War between France and England.

The Mexican civil war quest in Red Dead Redemption was a lot better.

Well it nicely showed there was going to be a sacking of Winterhelm and there's innocent casualties.

If anything, I still think the quest line is worth playing through because it extends the game (rather than sticking to main quest and resolving things with little interference). You also get a two unique actors some screen time, out of it (as far as I know, Tullius and Ulfric's actors don't voice anyone else).

So do you really want the main game to be cut in parts and release the cut parts as DLC just like Saints Row 3?

umad?

Nah, I'm glad they put it in the game. Adds much more depth into it.

The Civil War add depth and politics to Skyrim. Oblivion had none of that, and was all about a demon invasion.

Politics are important for culture, one of the things Morrowind did best. Without the Nords rebelling due to the White Gold Concordat, their honor culture would have the same depth as "Nibeneans think their slick... slippery is more like it." Their devotion to Talos is shown by their rebellion. Them having more Talos shrines than Cyrodiil wouldn't present it as well.

It has a wonderful interplay with the rest of Tamriel. What went down in the south affected Skyrim, like how it works in real life. It makes Tamriel feel alive.

Edit: Sadly, the actual questline was boring.