Actually, I was asking about Riften ones, in general. I guess mentioning that I was tricked into initiating Brynjolf's quest muddied my question that came right after...sorry.

Since we can't kill Maven Black-Briar I'm wondering if this will be an option in an expansion. o.O

NP, I'll check around there too.

Mmm, yes, I got turned into a mafia thug because a quest sent me in search of an appraiser for a mysterious gem I found in some random dungeon ... unfortunately the gem was glued to my person and that was the only way to get rid of it.

Yeah, keep up the search. There are plenty of Good guy oriented quests in the game. Most people say no. They're fools, they only look for quests in cities... where you find omg! crime and corruption! dur! A city that offers mainly shady quests oh my god, is this not to be expected? Are all cities in fantasy worlds meant to be filled with kind hearted individuals? My expierence? you'll likley find [censored]s in cities.

That would be great!
Hey, in the Dragon Quest games everybody's nice in the cities!

Yeah, But its a theme in Bethesda games for shady characters being all over the place, and rudeness comonplace. Hell, even more so in morrowind with the rudeness.

This is true. Man, a good "Fus" sure does take care of sass, though!

Yeah, luckily I found out about that after having only picked one of them up. I refuse to do the TG quests just to get rid of it...maybe I can convince a guard I stole it and he'll arrest me and confiscate it.

At least in Fallout 3 we could kill most (maybe all) of them.

I agree. Stealing is the good choice IF you steal from the Black Briars and the Thieves Guild and from the Imperial Legion.

I was very surprised when a bounty hunter accosted me whilst trekking through the snow near Falkreath. When I arrived at the town, the guards tried to arrest me. I couldn't figure out what the heck I'd done until I remembered that some imperial soldier had recently gotten dead during a fight I had with a dragon in the area. Must have accidentally singed him with some fire in the excitement. Ooops.

It's mostly a crime. Crime does not equal evil all the time.

I think you mean to say, "I agree. Stealing is the good choice IF you steal from the Black Briars and the Thieves Guild and from the Stormcloak rebellion."

What if we invited Alinor's military to Riften?

Or simply steal from all 4.

Did you drink all the skooma?

They make you feel bad in the shakedown quest but Im not really certain who was the bad guy. It never really said whether the debts were valid debts or not. If they owed the money legitimately and refused to pay then they were the bad ones. And the fact that they lied and said they couldnt pay leads me to suspect that might be the case. Its not wrong to put pressure on a welsher.

That was perhaps the one quest in the TG I didn't like (Though the next quest was also dubious, at least the arson element of it). The first quest I fudged on purpose and lied to Brynjolf - Shame this quest didn't have other options, I feel especially bad about the Bee and Barbs guys, I liked them

Other than that though I actually liked the TG, they felt like a welcoming family and most the NPCs had more depth to them than most of the NPCs in the game. I also liked that you could see the changes occur in the Ragged Flagon as you progressed with the story and did the odd jobs for them.

Overall TG should have been the standard for all the guilds.

I don't think it really matters. There is no Karma meter or consequence system in place in the game. I have not seen any consequences for any actions whatsoever. I don't think good or evil plays into this game. If it does, let me know...

Oh, but there is a consequence. You now have something plaguing the back of your mind of doing something with your character that was out of character.

Tempted to create a mod once the CK comes out that simply adds the ability to say 'no' yet still manage to progress to the next quest.

PLEASE do. I will instantly download and endorse. In fact, I'll even help you beta it.

I enjoy the Thieves Guild quest. I bet that if the Thieves Guild was robin hoodlike as in Oblivion, people would still complain.

And how exactly would that work?

Quest Giver: "We need you to steal this vital information from someone important to lead us to the location of someone we don't know.

Dragonborn: "No because I'm too paladiny for this kind of stuff."

Quest Giver: "You said no so we already have the necessary information."

You can see how many problems that would cause.

Why no option to destroy the thieves guild?

It's just a matter of perspective.

Quest Giver: "We need you to steal this vital information from someone important to lead us to the location of someone we don't know.

Dragonborn Option 1: Sure, I'll help. [quest goes as normal]
Dragonborn Option 2: I'm not a thief/assassin/paladin/whatever, perhaps you should ask somebody else. [x amount of time passes as a way to pretend the finding and completing the quest by another character, before the next quest pops up. You do not get the rewards you would usually get if you had done the quest, only the flags are set to keep the plot moving forward as it were.]
Dragonborn Option 3: I refuse to do this and find even the idea of such an act reprehensible. [essential tags are removed, now possible to kill the quest giver with all repercussions of having done so. Or just walk away and now it being impossible to do the quest. Cleared from journal.]
Dragonborn Option 4: I've no time for this. [quest giver stops talking, maybe going so far as then removing quest from journal, but still possible to return to quest giver to complete]

Unless the coding portion is crazy-difficult, the biggest problem would it just being time consuming.

Naturally all these options could be better fleshed out with more detailed alternate paths and so on, but for those that just would like to say 'no' it'll do the job.


I just may take you up on that offer.