I just realized that stealth is awful because...

Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:11 am

The stealth in this game is not very good because the enemies AI is poorly done.

If the enemies was a little smarter they would have noticed you hid behind that tree or rock, or they should have noticed you run in the shadows i their line of sight.
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Alexxxxxx
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:27 pm

Correct me if i am wrong but is that not what stealth is???firing from stealth moving to a different location striking again, the whole point is to not get detected.The whole idea of stealth is to use it and stay hidden.Then again it does not work on dragons!

It took, what?, 8 posts for the standard canonical RPG reply to surface.
Yes, in a RPG, as your stelath skills go up you will be able to do stuff so secretly that my 81 Archery / 77 Sneak character can stand two feet next to an enemy, shooting him continously on the head, and the Forest Gump in him won't mind me and will instead charge Lydia.
This is canonical.

Thus, the Canon must change.

I don't really care if we stop addressing TES as RPGs, as long as the de facto gameplay experience improves, gets deeper, more meaningful. Less silly.
I'm sure Neanderthal women thought theirs was the definitive way to dress.
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adam holden
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:12 pm

I'm in the school that says "this is how stealth is supposed to work".

If you're a sneak-thief-assassin, this is how you fight. Unfair. Totally one-sided. The more unfair, the better. An assassin doesn't give his target a chance at a fair fight. We're not talking about a paladin here, after all. Plus, with some mobs, it's the only way a pure thief character can win. They don't have magic to ward off destruction spells, they don't have strong armor to ward off battle axe swings, they don't have weapons that do massive damage in a fair fight. If they try to go "toe to toe" with a Draugr Death Lord, they are going to get splattered.

Is it cheating? Of course! Cheating is what rogues do best! If you aren't cheating, you aren't properly role-playing a rogue. When I play my assassin character, I cheat outrageously. That doesn't mean I exploit game mechanics, just that I use every advantage I can get: I kill people in their beds while they sleep. I kill them from 100 paces with a bow while safely hidden away in the trees. Instead of killing them to loot what I want, I steal it from their house while they are out tending their store. If my first bow shot doesn't kill them, I sneak to another spot and hit them again, and then again, until they die without ever figuring out where I was. Sometimes I even sneak in and loot their treasure chest without even killing them, then sneak back out. I'm not going to give them a chance... that would be stupid! Same idea with killing dragons. If there is someone else around that will get the dragon's attention while I snipe at them from a distance, you can bet your mama I'll be keeping my distance and letting some other poor sap take all the risk while I reap all the reward. I'm a THIEF!

Now, my warrior is different. She might sneak in to get a good look at what's going on, and fire the first shot from hiding, but would then draw her sword and shield and bring a hearty battle cry to her lips. They might not see the first shot, but they sure won't miss the next one.
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maya papps
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:32 am

Either they die from the first shot, or they're off-balance/disoriented when the second shot is on the way. Nothing wrong there. If they're strong enough to withstand that and make a charge, then my assassin is in for a struggle and is grateful to have a weakened opponent, and is wishing he would gone for the backstab.

In the case of sniping a few enemies and one of their buddies finds the bodies, I do think they should do a more thorough search for their killer/s. Doesn't mean automatic detection, but they should at least move around quicker so you can't get him as easily as his less aware friends.
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Averielle Garcia
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:06 pm

Either they die from the first shot, or they're off-balance/disoriented when the second shot is on the way. Nothing wrong there. If they're strong enough to withstand that and make a charge, then my assassin is in for a struggle and is grateful to have a weakened opponent, and is wishing he would gone for the backstab.

In the case of sniping a few enemies and one of their buddies finds the bodies, I do think they should do a more thorough search for their killer/s. Doesn't mean automatic detection, but they should at least move around quicker so you can't get him as easily as his less aware friends.

Yes, spotting bodies lying around should be - pun intended - a dead give away. I've also opened doors, say, less than 10 feet away from an enemy. He didn't notice it. He continued absentminded in whatever he was doing, his back turned on me, somehow unable to notice a 7 feet metal door was being opened behind him.

I'm sorry.
If the very notion of what an RPG should be is preventing TES from evolving, I say, loud and clear.
Ditch the RPG in TES.

Or morph it.
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Patrick Gordon
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:49 pm

He continued absentminded in whatever he was doing, his back turned on me, somehow unable to notice a 7 feet metal door was being opened behind him.

Maybe the hinges are well-oiled? ;)
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Jacob Phillips
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:11 am

For those saying it's cheap; tell that to a real-world sniper.

After the first shot, people will be alerted to their prescence yes, firing an arrow will alert nearby foes to your presence too in Skyrim - but it may take many shots before they finally pinpoint their position and begin trying to root you out. This gets even worse if the sniper keeps moving un-seen between different positions before setting up another shot. The highetened alert state doesn't much matter, as long as an enemy hasn't spotted you (visually), they are open to sneak attacks.

If you feel that sniping is too easy, then don't do it. But this is one example of fiction mimicking reality, people often [censored] how unrealistic Skyrim is, but this is one example of realism and you're STILl [censored]ing about it >.<




Only a year or two ago an Iraqi kid with a rifle managed to pin down an entire US army unit for the best part of a day... and he got away on a bicycle.

Nerf bicycles and rifles plox? - Unfortunatly, nerfs don't apply in real life, but when you get to pull off the same stunt in Skyrim, don't [censored] it's imbalanced. It's no more imba than real life.

I wasn't [censored]ing about anything, I was giving and asking for an opinion. Is this board not the place to do that? Tell me, where is?

Anyway, my problem isn't that I can hide and fire arrows, I think it is that the AI is so stupid. Many of you have detailed this quite well already. I think if they get hit with an arrow, they shouldn't search for a minute and then write it off to their imagination - even though there is an arrow sticking out of their face. They should stay on the lookout, and alert everyone else as well. THAT would make an assassin very difficult and realistic. Tell me, what is realistic about getting an arrow to the face, then seeing your dead buddy, searching for 30 seconds and then saying, "oh well, too much skooma. I am just imagining [censored]."

In other words, constructively add to the discussion or go play an MMO and [censored] talk there where you belong. I think this is a worthy topic for discussion, and apparently, many others do as well.
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T. tacks Rims
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:03 am

The ai is stupid in games because the system requirements need to kept low, its expensive to make good AI, and all the cpu goes to graphics because everyone wants pretty games not good AI. The AI in this game is standard compared to any other rpg type games still stupid, but its par for the course.
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Johanna Van Drunick
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:52 pm

stealth is the greatest killer, as it should be. However, once discovered, thieves have a hard time unless they are orcs. Light armor and daggers aren't the best solution to heavy armor wielding maces.

This. My level 47 assassin has all his eggs in the "offense" bag, so if I get discovered I'm quite poor at defending myself. Things still get hairy from time to time because of this (on Expert).
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Batricia Alele
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:11 pm

For those saying it's cheap; tell that to a real-world sniper.

After the first shot, people will be alerted to their prescence yes, firing an arrow will alert nearby foes to your presence too in Skyrim - but it may take many shots before they finally pinpoint their position and begin trying to root you out. This gets even worse if the sniper keeps moving un-seen between different positions before setting up another shot. The highetened alert state doesn't much matter, as long as an enemy hasn't spotted you (visually), they are open to sneak attacks.

If you feel that sniping is too easy, then don't do it. But this is one example of fiction mimicking reality, people often [censored] how unrealistic Skyrim is, but this is one example of realism and you're STILl [censored]ing about it >.<




Only a year or two ago an Iraqi kid with a rifle managed to pin down an entire US army unit for the best part of a day... and he got away on a bicycle.

Nerf bicycles and rifles plox? - Unfortunatly, nerfs don't apply in real life, but when you get to pull off the same stunt in Skyrim, don't [censored] it's imbalanced. It's no more imba than real life.

There's a big difference between bullets and arrows. You can much easily tell the where an arrow has been fired from than a bullet, especially when they are direct and are not volleys (which is almost always the case in Skyrim). As the arrow practically points from where it's been shot, some arrows do swerve but if a Trained archer is firing them most of hte itme it will be obvious. Also firing a Bow compared to a sniper means you will often have to be in a position where you are more likely to be seen, Shooting a bow whilst prone is highly impractical whilst with a sniper rifle it's easier. Trying to compare Skyrim combat to modern day iraq is laughable in my opinon.
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Brittany Abner
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:50 am

I would think that the NPCs are not all hardened veteran warriors on alert for enemies all of the time. I would say some of their stupidity could be because of wine or lack of sleep. In a dark tunnel, it would make sense to a drunken sword wielder to attack the person in the shiny armor that has a big hammer since they would stand out more.
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carrie roche
 
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Post » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:45 pm



Crysis 1 was not sandbox.

It is.

But I do not prepare to argue with you on this one here.

If you consider Skyrim as an RPG, then Crysis should also be considered as a sandbox game.
Because Skyrim's RPG-ness is probably on par with Crysis' sandbox-ness.
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Sammygirl500
 
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