this is totally not like every other RPG quest out there...

Especially TES ones...

I honestly felt that this was the best written out of the four guilds, don't get me wrong the others were great, if a little rushed. But to be honest I felt that I was due the role of leader the most for the theives guild.

I wasn't just given the role from the last leader
Nor did I get it because the night mother chose me
Or because I was the other person in the room when Tolfdir decided

I had to work for a long time, through the quest line, and doing tons of side quests. as well as that the guild and the flaggon look so awesome when you have done all the side quests, you can really see the input that you have had on the guild

the thieves guild is the only faction that improved after the questline. the DB = majority died, college = 3 died, companion= 2 died
Thieves guild, only one person died(mercer) and he deserved it. Plus after the guild master quest, you get all 5 holds under thieves guild control, about 2 more new thieves guild member(etiennes if u save him in thalmor, and that elf guy) and 4 merchants in the flagon. So i say thieves guild is a success, but its too rushed.

Only thing i HATED about after the guildmaster quest is, dirge keeps on saying i am the GM's fren blahblah. And that bar man...
i might throw both of them into the water and see if they recognise me

I don't agree with the Dark Brotherhood one, as they are bound by following the Night Mother. If you are not willing to follow her, you shouldn't be a part of the organisation, as being an assassin isn't about personal goals and ideals.

I see what you mean with the Mages College, it was a little short and abrupt, would have been nicer to have a bit more to it, maybe more of a build up before the excavation, so they can see your abilities (which would explain why they give you more free reign).

Definitely agree with the Thieves Guild, if we can choose to destroy or help the Dark Brotherhood, then we should get the choice with the Thieves Guild, especially as they are much more of a problem.

All the guilds are weak versions of their oblivion counterparts. The Dark Brotherhood are just thugs under the thumb of a crazy b!tch who does not care about the night mother, the mages college is actually a sunday school for 4 bored students who promote the newest brat to principal just because "he was standing the closest to the previous leader when he died", and the thieves guild is...they are...NOTHING without the gray fox. Oh and the companions guild is like a 3rd as long as the fighter's guild from oblivion. If there WAS freedom in the guilds and quests i wuld have:
1.Stabbed Astrid when she told Cicero that SHE was the leader of the sanctuary and her word was law
2.Fired everyone in the college for incompetence when i became archmage and then drop the school into the ocean
3.Slapped Maven BlackBriar after the goldenglow job and haul her into the woods to be eaten by a bear
4.Never join the companions, join the Silver Hand, kill the Companions

Simply not true.
Both Daggerfall and Morrowind offered choices and consequences.
In fact, Bethesda has shown they can create an intricate game with an excellent story, they just havent for the past two games.

Indeed this game is somewhat of a stepdown compared to Oblivion when we talk about the guilds. At least I had a feeling that I was supposed to be the leader of the mages guild there, and that I somewhat deserved it. Not to mention I actually had to get accommodations from all the mages guilds in the towns.

Indeed, you never had the choice to help the Comonna Tong influence the fighters guild and destroy the thieves guild in the process or to root out the corruption in the fighter's guild thus saving the thieves guild. That never happened at all.

But thats just about the only example of a choice in an Elder Scrolls game having much consequence (and even then if you weren't in the TG it had little consequence).
DF and MW defnitely offered more choices but few had consequence. Typical was kill or spare Orvas Dren. His brother didn't even seem to notice which choice you made. Worst of all was the DF MQ ending. Make one of 8 choices, great. Then a deux ex machina in the form of a Dragonbreak comes along and completely invalidates your choice. Bethesda used to do choice (a bit more often than they do now) but they have never been big on consequence.

Bloodmoon would like to have a word with you.

Never got around to doing Bloodmoon but still even if I concede you that its still only twice Bethesda have done consequence out of many questlines

edit: plus from what I've read the choices and consequences in Bloodmoon only affect the character, not the gameworld. Obviously much easier to cater for

You should just sell your game and start real life.

An imperial fort is destroyed, its commander lives or dies depending on your decision. A colony gets constructed through your support, or sabotaged(There's quite a lot of gameworld change in this one. The colony gets constructed in several changes). Side with the Skaal or Hircine. Skaal treat you like a hero or as absolute scum depending on which.

Some things need to happen in a certain way because of Lore. For example, the thieves guild is supposed to come back to prominence during this era. You'd be breaking canon if they allowed it.

Yep, you've got me
I was thinking of the confrontation with Hircine at the end only
Still it only has consequences for that one island, not the world as a whole

Well, the part about wanting to feel like you earned the title of guildmaster was definately in past TES games. In Oblivion for instance, the guild questlines were much longer and by the time you became leader you felt like you earned it. In Morrowind, the guild questlines were longer still with all sorts of minimum skill/attributes requirements and you had to do a lot of grunt work to work your way up. I tend to agree with that part of the OP's complaint pretty strongly.

As for the option to not become a guild leader, yeah, that has never been an option unless you chose not to do the final quest and they have never had the option of taking down a guild before. However, with the civil war questline having two completely different paths (albiet mirror images of each other), it seems at least possible that there could be a DLC to allow the thieves guild to be taken out. As I understand it there is already a way to take out the DB, why not the thieves guild.

Somewhat more lessons? Ha! there should have been a lot more lessons. I kind of enjoyed the first lesson where he taught us wards. There should have been a couple more of those, plus some more grunt quests before he sent us off to Saarthal to start the beginning of the end of that quest line. There are plenty of radiant quests at the college and you should have to do some of those before they send you off to Saarthal. Kind of like you have to help the people of the hold before you can buy some of the houses. That way you could feel like a student of magic for a while and get to know the place.

Once I went to Saarthal, it did not make sense to do the radient quests when I was being visited by mysterious visions and there was this potentially world ending calamaty taking place in the college and before I could sneeze I was archmage.

I've rather enjoyed the book quests for some reason. I know it's just dumb and random dungeon delving but I've seen some pretty cool places. The variety of caves/dungeons/etc is remarkable.

Frankly, that is the only example for this.

And this is only one quest in the faction.


Bloodmoon is more like joining the Stormcloaks or the Empire.

what about the little choices in the games and quests? there are tons of examples of being told to go get soemthing and when u get there, u can either kill, pickpocket, steal, talk the person out it, or hell alrdy had it from some where else....or the big one here, flatout refuse the quest.

Killing vivec or letting him live changes the main quest quite a bit. Joining 1 of 3 great houses and developing your own stronghold and sabotaging the other ones.

Bloodmoon is nothing like stormcloaks/empire. You build an entire town or end up causing its end. The quests for both sides of the main quest have marked consequences that you don't see in the civil war.