First off there's (SPOILERS - not really that much spoiling.). In this game there's some kind of free will - that free will is about where you want to go. My point however are that if we go deeper into this game, then there's no free will. While I'll point out places where there defeniatly should have been more choices or freewill I will also point out places where something went wrong.


The College of Winterhold
When I entered the college of Winterhold, I did expect a school. And when they showed me around the school I thought to my self "wow, this is a real school where I am to study magic, and learn about it. I even got classmates, and a place to sleep." I was even more eager when I was told that we were to have our first class. I actually came to think of Hogwarts... but more awesome. Then we are to go to an excavation.... that's about it. They said something like "You are locked inside there. hmm But when your already there, then pleace search the whole place - kill everything that moves." I were Dissapointed. And all of a sudden they say "You are prob the best suited to be leader, we other teachers have been here for several years, you've been here for a week. This makes perfect sense." Honestly, I would have liked some sort of choice as if I wished to be leader or not. It's not really practical that I'm never there while they are there forever. Also the missions here are pathetic. I've only played oblivion and Skyrim from the elderscrools series (with the expansions). And in oblivion I needed accomdations and there were many missions. Actually it seemed reasonable that I were to be leader. Here it doesn't.

The Thieves Guild.
When I came to riften I realized after a day in there how corrupt and miserable the whole place were. I went to the thieves guild and did their missions. However I would have liked the option to actually help the Jarl there to defeat the corruption and make it a decent city again. Like be some sort of detective who were to kinda uncover the whole corrupt network. (Like when you are to be inquisitor on the Shivering Isles in Obliovion). Then I'd beaten the thieves guild for good and removed any Corrupt authority. Just to say this would also add a mission that not entirely is about killing things.

The Dark Brotherhood.
I thought it would be nice to an assassin. And it was. However I'm a staunch supporter of the Empire and would gladly see the Aldmerri Dominion slaugthered. Then they tell me to kill the Emperial princess. This is against my goals - as I wish to destroy the aldmerri dominion. And I see that the Empire would be even more weakened. I would like the choice to actually side with the Empire and change the course of action within the dark brother. This could eventually turn into an internal conflict between those who side with me and others who want to keep it as it is. The fact that I would side with the Empire might weaken the Aldmerri dominion or the Storm Cloaks as I'd kill their officers and others with influence. Eventually leading into conflicts between the Empire/Storm Cloaks and the Aldmerri Dominion depending on how you do the killing and what your goals are. You might even turn it into an all vs all war.


The lagg of consequenzes also ruin the game for me, but that's another story.

Regards Secuter

if youre gonna post spoilers why post this in the general section?

i didnt read that wall of text but its true there is a lack of choice

The only spoiler is the ending of some of the different "factions"

What you're asking for has never been an element of Elder Scrolls games.

Sounds like you'd be better off playing a BioWare game.

The choice comes from the fact that you don't have to do any quest that goes against your characters goals or morality.

I know, and I also tend to find Bioware games somewhat better worked through. However I like the elderscrolls. There's just somethings that could be made alot better.

I kind of agree about the Thieves Guild. I got drawn into their world and started some of the Quests, but decided it wasn't "me", so I'd like to uncover them and bring them to justice, but there's no option to do that. So, I'll just leave the next Quest sitting in my list and will never do it. Shame.

Given the free reign - see: free will - that players do have in this game, it would be virtually impossible for Bethesda to account for all the different possibilities.

I'm not anti-the things your asking for either, but given the nature of the game, it's just not practical.

The thing is that there's no free will. I might seem so since you can go where and whenever you like, but when it comes to missions and quests and so on, there's no free will. You'll just have to follow the path that are made for you.

And that's what I'm saying, that has never been a part of Elder Scrolls, and just isn't practical considering all the different possibilities that the developers could not possibly account for.

I too would like to see what you are asking for, but ultimately you're going to have to accept that when you play a TES game, that's not what you're getting. The free will exists in the choice to do the quest or not do the quest.

a logical progression of events for the factions would have done nicely, though, im content without so much choice in bethesda stories (if only they were written right!)

edit: what i mean to say is, i dont mind the lack of chocie in the bigger quest-lines and such, they are all recorded lroe and are canon, making choice hard to do, but the small stuff that wont go in the history books of tamriel should have choice though

More choice in the questlines would be good.
Still it would hardly make sense if the DB checked to see if it was ok with their newest member before deciding to take on a commission.

I don't think you quite understand the concept of the dark brotherhood. Regardless of who the contractor wants killed(unless its another member of the dark brotherhood or someone like maven black briar) the dark brotherhood are hired assassins and they will do what is asked of them in exchange for a reward. You do what is told of you as your told in an organisation like the dark brotherhood. If you don't agree with them,don't do the aventus aretino quest or kill them off. You're given the option to disagree with them at such a point,so clearly you just got yourself stuck into the questline without realising the dark brotherhood will kill practically anyone because its who they are. You're going to have to sell your soul because of that. Plus any quest you don't want to do you don't have to do

The College of Winterhold
When I entered the college of Winterhold, I did expect a school. And when they showed me around the school I thought to my self "wow, this is a real school where I am to study magic, and learn about it. I even got classmates, and a place to sleep." I was even more eager when I was told that we were to have our first class. I actually came to think of Hogwarts... but more awesome. Then we are to go to an excavation.... that's about it. They said something like "You are locked inside there. hmm But when your already there, then pleace search the whole place - kill everything that moves." I were Dissapointed. And all of a sudden they say "You are prob the best suited to be leader, we other teachers have been here for several years, you've been here for a week. This makes perfect sense." Honestly, I would have liked some sort of choice as if I wished to be leader or not. It's not really practical that I'm never there while they are there forever. Also the missions here are pathetic. I've only played oblivion and Skyrim from the elderscrools series (with the expansions). And in oblivion I needed accomdations and there were many missions. Actually it seemed reasonable that I were to be leader. Here it doesn't.

The college of winterhold I will agree is rather ridiculous,but its rather irrelevant to your idea that there is no free will in the game.There's not exactly much you can vary when it comes to the mage questline. The whole concept of magic is the study of knowledge and throughout the questline that is what you intend to achieve,until it develops into the idea that knowledge is dangerous in some cases and you must ,in order to prevent great harm,stop this knowledge from being uncovered by people like arcano. Questlines aren't about free will. Your way of doing these questlines are entirely up to you but ultimately questlines are driven forward by an objective. If you disagree with that objective,svcks to be you. Though the whole "your the new arch-mage" thing happening was definitely totally out of order. And there should have been somewhat more lessons.

The Thieves Guild.
When I came to riften I realized after a day in there how corrupt and miserable the whole place were. I went to the thieves guild and did their missions. However I would have liked the option to actually help the Jarl there to defeat the corruption and make it a decent city again. Like be some sort of detective who were to kinda uncover the whole corrupt network. (Like when you are to be inquisitor on the Shivering Isles in Obliovion). Then I'd beaten the thieves guild for good and removed any Corrupt authority. Just to say this would also add a mission that not entirely is about killing things.

It probably would have been nice to have a whole get rid of the thieves guild,but since they were all rushed(I think i read that somewhere in this forum) there wasn't going to be much of a choice in the whole thing.

Overall I'd say you will have to look towards other games if you want the whole make choices live with the consequences kinda thing like a bioware game or maybe L.A noire if you want the whole detective experience.Ultimately skyrim is more of an action,questline driven adventure game

I agree with the college of winterhold part. I would have liked to have a group of classes in between the main storyline quests. Like each one they teach you a spell/potion/enchantment or something like that. It would have been more fun and would have bulked out the storyline a lot more.

And maybe there could have been like advancements, so you didn't just jump from newest member to arch-mage, like you said, you could even have to teach lessons to other students

If you're looking for a game with great writing, intelligently made quest chains with depth and options and the possibility of varying results that affect the world differently and affect how that world reacts to you, greatly enhancing replayability... then yer definitely in the wrong place.

If you want throwaway quests with no replayability value that rapidly leave you with not many options to keep it 'interesting' but to invent freak characters like a naked one-armed thief that only lives off of stolen mammoth cheese and has an unnatural hatred for mudcrabs... then Skyrim is the bee's knees.

Bioware sold out to EA in my opinion. Bethesda games have some of the most free will out of any games in existence.

In Bioware games you can make scripted decisions... In Skyrim you can do WHATEVER you want. If you don't feel like you have much of a choice on something, don't do it. Nothing is forcing you to do so.

I agree that some of this writing is... meh. But given what we have here your ability to role play and imagination makes the game what it is; no two people play the same game and experience the same thing.

Oh no, the game developers didnt consult you before making their game! What are we to do!

Really. This is Bethesda's game. They made the quest lines how they wanted. The lines are meant to tell a story, and if you don't like where the story is going, like any book, you can put it down and forget about it.

Sure the college quest could have had some actual classes, but think of it as you arrived the day they were going on a field trip, and you happened upon the eye of magnus. Thus starts the story. And becomming the leader after a weak isnt because you are the most powerful at magic. Chances are, the Dean at a real university couldn't pass every class the school offers.

The thieves guild is, again, a story. You arrive midst the guild struggling and its leader has gone corrupt. So starts the story of you helping set the guild on track once again.

The dark brotherhood is a group of contracted assassins. They kill who they are told. Period. They are not political actavists and are not out to control the way events take place.


So once again, the quest lines are meant to tell a story, and to want to change that story is like getting mad at a book for not going how you want it too.

I agree.

They don't give you proper choices.
Theres no true freedom.
Nothing changes, whatever you do, you cannot change or impact the world nearly enough.

And the mages college, I expected lessons. Go to class, work your way up a bit. It is a bit much becoming archmage so fast.
Not going to complain, I like the place and quests. It's just a bit odd.
They also force you to join the MC, for the MQ.

The thieves guild is beyond stupid. The worst faction and quests in any game ever.
You can't even destroy them! Turn them into the authorities, kill them, nothing!
They are freaking obbsessed with forcing you to join the TG! To the point they hide the none the TG options to find Esburn in the MQ. They literally refuse to show them in your log. While you're doing them. It just says talk to Brynjolf for the entire time.

The Dark Brotherhood are the best written faction and quests in the game.
But still, it would be cool if you could pick a diferent target and take the big plot in another direction.
Like you said, aim it at the someone else if you did'nt like killing the emporer.
At least you can destroy them, unlike every other freaking faction in the game!

Skyrim has no free will. Bioware are corrupt as hell, but the games I have, have true choice and free will. Dragon Age Origins has true choice, and that is a linear rpg. Bioware have gone insane since making that, and got even more corrupt and stupid. But they probabely have true choice still.

Bethesdas previous games have free will.
Fallout 3 you can do 99% whatever you want. The stupid linear MQ that forces your evil character to be a soppy daddys girl/boy and not side with the Enclave properly, aside.

But not Skyrim, not at all.

Agree to disagree.

Bioware's games aint that bad. They still have a good storyline. I still loved Dragon age 2 despite people saying its crap. But true they gone from 'Great' to 'Money lovers'.
Skyrim now, also has free will, not just previous gamesas games. I just feel that the devs sacrificed too much in the graphics and didnt care a crap about other areas *still raging at the alduin ending*

I hear what the OP is talking about. All of those are issues that the game has.

I did the Thieves Guild and found it very uplifting (not at all what I expected).
It diverges into the Nightingales and gives some honour to Brynjolf, instead of just hawking his stupid potions...

However in my very first playthrough I never joined TG, but I went in there and got Esburn out no problems at all.
(Also had to clean out the warrens to get back some farmer's precious bow.)
Sure the game tries to get you caught up in the TG, it's one of the best questlines in Skyrim.
But it doesn't force you in any way...

I agree that this whole questline feels rushed. If you had to do minor quests of going to class and listening to lectures (even if it just meant you sat down and did nothing for 5 minutes) that would have been much preferred as it gives a sense of pace to the questline. As it is it's pretty much "Welcome to the College, you've just unleashed Armageddon, go fix it so you can become our new leader."


The Jarl of Riften is corrupt. She doesn't want the city cleaned up, she wants to keep getting paid. Either that or her steward's corrupt and she's just stupid. Either way, she cares nothing for her people's troubles, and is just as responsible for Riften's state as Maven.


Your targets are determined by the client. If the Emperor was performing the Black Sacrament, you'd get your wish. Unfortunately for you (and Mede), someone else performed the Sacrament and chose a target you didn't really want to kill. It sounds to me like you're looking much more for the Morag Tong rather than the Dark Brotherhood.

I see some argues that if I don't like to do a quest, then I just don't do it. However that's not free will. Ofc it lets me choose what to and what not to, but if a game just continue like that, then it becomes dull and boring. Mainly because there's no progression. I'd like to alter what is happening, side with different faction or change the whole organization.

If I should give an example (the first thing I just thought of) Lets say that I don't like the missions in COD. Your argument would be "don't play them then"? But then there's no progression and I can't just get around the mission or get another one, this is where the "free will" that supposedly should be in this game disappears

I think the issue here is limited choice and limited repercussions for decisions made. There is the sensation of being caught up in the world events but what breaks immersion is the lack of ripples that are felt by the people of Skyrim as a result of your intervention. For most, it doesnt matter what you do because either way people are not really going to notice or care unless you kill their spouse... to a degree anyway.

So, its not about free will but about a narrow scope in terms of gaming experience. I will admit some of the events played out a little slap dash and did not indicate any significanty depth of thought and consideration for an immersive experience (although Im sure the intent is the opposite). Nevertheless, it is just a game so we have to keep our expectations realistic. I am quite sure the expansions will provide us with the missing ingredients. Patience is key here.