railroaded into pickpocketing to continue main quest? : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:13 pm

But who would know that on their first time playing? Or where said cave is? Early on, you ARE railroaded. It's only later, after you've been playing a while, that you realize you don't have to follow the script.

I went to the College with one character that had no magic spells at all. It was after the Greybeards named her Dragonborn, and the College let her in with a demonstration of a Shout... Other characters I made did join the college, but that was because I wanted the Shout in Saarthal. Someday maybe I'll try a character that just wants to look around.

As for the Thieves' guild, Delphine said she would hide in the Ratway, so I told the guy no way to his proposition of pickpocketing and headed down to wander around the Ratway without his help.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:18 am

Ironically on my first playthrough I was a stealthmage type deal and was already in both the theives guild and winterhold so I didnt notice until my second playthrough when brynolf wanted me to join his dumb guild. It's not like he has a majority interest in the world not ending. Why should he help dovakhiin?

Actually there is a conversation option where you can make him help you without joining thieves guild. You tell him dragons are not good for business and he agrees.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:21 pm

And here i thought everyone loved pickpocketing :disguise:

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:37 am

But who would know that on their first time playing? Or where said cave is? Early on, you ARE railroaded. It's only later, after you've been playing a while, that you realize you don't have to follow the script.

I did. But I have the guidebook. :biggrin:

I don't really see what the big deal is here. In Riften you can just refuse the dialogue with Brynjolf. It's takes literally 10 seconds or less to do that and you're on your way. And in Winterhold, even if you don't know that you don't have to join the college, all you have to do is cast a spell on the ground and then make your way into the main building and up the stairs. That's probably about two minutes worth of time.

But as someone said earlier, it would have been nice to have an option to destroy the TG just like the DB. I'd say the same for all the other guilds in the game though too.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:27 pm

Technically, it's true. But here's the thing- for a person who's playing Skyrim for the first time, what's the liklihood of them understanding that you can do this? It's only after the second playthrough and/or communicating with other people do they learn the who, what, and how to bypass these "forced" iniations.

It's forced because you're given absolutly no indication beforehand that you can bypass these questlines entirely, and at least one of them "forces" you to be iniated into one of the factions if you play the main quest as-written and do limited exploration outside of quests. THIS is what people are PO'ed about.

Oh no, the game didn't tell you that using your brain was an option. What has this world come to! Such barbarianism. Using our brains, psh.

The railroad is there to ensure people can get though the main quest. This was the biggest complain about Morrowind. There was no guide and people got lost. But even still, you could just go immediately for Keening and Sundern and beat the game in like 15 minutes.

And as i said, the rifted portion actually GUIDES you to Esburn and not the thieves guild. You don't have to join ANYTHING you don't want to. Having a quest in your journal is NOT the same as joining.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:01 pm

"Never done an honest day's work in your life for all that coin you're carrying. Eh, lad?"

I want to to kill him sooooo bad...

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm

A favor for a favor. Makes sense to me. The guy has information you need, so he wants a favor in return. It's not "railroading". It's actually having a bit of consequence in the world.

You are never forced into the thieves guild. Just follow the markers and you will bypass all of that.

Just because you are given the first quest doesn't mean you are a part of the college. You tell the gate keeper that you are the dovakiin and need to speak to the librarian, so they let you in. Getting the quest is mor of a "While your here, why not partake in some of our classes" gesture rather then forced addmission.

Also, this. All you have to do is go into the College of Winterhold. You're not actually "joining", you're simply being granted access. Don't talk to Marianne, or Maribell or whatever her name is, and you will never be given the tour, and you will never get the quest to attend class.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:19 pm

"Never done an honest day's work in your life for all that coin you're carrying. Eh, lad?"

I want to to kill him sooooo bad...

Yeah, he said that to my latest character....who had saved up 10,000 gold from chopping firewood. <_<

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:17 am

Just ignore them and keep going down.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:29 pm

Technically, it's true. But here's the thing- for a person who's playing Skyrim for the first time, what's the liklihood of them understanding that you can do this? It's only after the second playthrough and/or communicating with other people do they learn the who, what, and how to bypass these "forced" iniations.

It's forced because you're given absolutly no indication beforehand that you can bypass these questlines entirely, and at least one of them "forces" you to be iniated into one of the factions if you play the main quest as-written and do limited exploration outside of quests. THIS is what people are PO'ed about.

For my first character in every game I usually make choices like I would do if that character were me. So when Brynjolf made me choose, I tried asking around town. Which seemed the logical thing to do. My first direction was the bar because that's where gossip and rumors usually are. Case solved. If you do a little exploring and try things like you would in real life, you find yourself not railroaded.

As for the mages, they even hold our hands at that. If you go to the college, enter by proving you are Dragonborn, you can fully skip the joining quest (talk to MIrabelle, attend the first lesson) because the quest marker will conveniently direct you to Urag. So you can't say that you didn't know what to do since the quest marker itself points you to Urag AND you can talk to Urag without officially joining the College.
:thumbsup:

"Never done an honest day's work in your life for all that coin you're carrying. Eh, lad?"

I want to to kill him sooooo bad...

You know that if you first meet him while being low on cash, he actually say something like "being low on money, are we?" I can't remember exactly because I always brush him off ASAP :biggrin:

hahaha, I first heard this a few weeks ago when I went straight to Riften right in the beginning because I wanted to pick Marcurio.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:41 pm

You know that if you first meet him while being low on cash, he actually say something like "being low on money, are we?" I can't remember exactly because I always brush him off ASAP :biggrin:

hahaha, I first heard this a few weeks ago when I went straight to Riften right in the beginning because I wanted to pick Marcurio.

Either way it's none of his business. I want him dead, and Mercer Frey is such... a weasel.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:02 am

In general I agree with the OP. Interlocking quests are very annoy, and have a tendency to destroy the roleplay aspect of the game.

Skyrim is an amazing game, but the idea that you are forced to do things that your character shouldn't do from a roleplay perspective is a defect of the game, in my opinion.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:07 am

The game is a little naughty in the way it points you at people to do MQ sections. It's doing this so that newbies are aware of the existence of the TG and MG, and how to join them. But as stated, you can bypass Brynjolf completely by just cutting off his convo (or telling him that you won't commit a crime) and going into the Ratway. Vekel the Man will tell you about Esbern - he even has a quest marker over his head. I've never tried going directly to where Esbern is, so I can't confirm that works or not.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:08 am

The game is a little naughty in the way it points you at people to do MQ sections. It's doing this so that newbies are aware of the existence of the TG and MG, and how to join them. But as stated, you can bypass Brynjolf completely by just cutting off his convo (or telling him that you won't commit a crime) and going into the Ratway. Vekel the Man will tell you about Esbern - he even has a quest marker over his head. I've never tried going directly to where Esbern is, so I can't confirm that works or not.

Pretty sure that's what I did this time around, third time through the MQ and no interest in the TG. Just went into the Ratway, fought my way to the Flaggon, breezed through there and on to Esbern.

Of course it's a lot easier the third time around, and my last character did the entire TG questline so I already knew where everything was.