I am level 46. Destruction is at 70something with lots of pe : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:25 pm

I was struggling a bit to make destruction work until I got rid of my companion. Now I no longer have to worry about them getting in the way and getting killed and I can do as I please. This freed me up to use more spells to handle the different situations I get into.

If you're on the PC, you can make your followers "essential," meaning you can't kill them. They'll complain when they get hit, though. But, I don't care about that, maybe it will teach Lydia not to run out in front of me during a battle.

Good luck.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:31 am

Dual casting is too costly per damage inflicted unless you take the enchanting perks, which breaks the game.

I prefer to paralyze with a single cast, then I can dish out damage in each hand individually providing me 2x damage for 2x magicka instead of 2.2x damage for 2.8x magicka.

That's one of the most broken things in all magic schools IMO. Make me spend a perk so that I can get WORSE magicka to spell ratio with dual casting? And it makes the whole "our game has dual casting, yay!" sentiment and turns it into "boy, I wish I could shoot fireballs while my claymore is equipped like I could in Oblivion."

Make dual casting 2.2x damage for 2.0x magicka. I'm spending a perk and dedicating both hands to make the spell more powerful. Why am I also being penalized so harshly in magicka usage?

As it stands now with the change in mechanics in this game, I feel like the interface now makes it too much of a pain in the ass to use a 2 handed weapon while being a spell caster. If you want to play a paladin style character that turns undead, casts shield spells and heals, you're so much better off going sword/board. I hate the "equip a spell in a hand" aspect, especially after going back to play oblivion. Keep a 2 handed sword equipped and instantly switchIng between 8 possible spells without ever unequipping your 2 handed sword or ever opening an inventory menu? Yes please! Totally superior.

Impact... stun-lock... profit

with 80-90% reduction (NOT that hard when you start with half-cost perk) and good magicka regen (and base magicka) you can spam dual-cast Destro all day long preventing enemies from ever being able to even attack you. (50% reduc on gear, w/ half cost perk= 75% off base cost. 60% gear for 80% off base, and 80% gear to reach 90% off base)

I'd say stunning enemies is worth losing a tiny bit of damage per magicka ratio.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:37 pm

I never run out of magicka because:

1) I only ever put levelup points into magicka. Never did health, never did stamina. Mage = magicka, not health, imo, so I made sure I had more magicka than anyone else at the expense of health. Just like *pure* fighters rarely if ever level up magicka.

2) Only magic-reduction enchantments I have do 25% for all schools. (40% reduction total from gear including archmage robes, and then magic reduction perks on top of that)

3) Magicka regeneration enchantments. Contrary to popular belief, it actually does work in combat, it is just slower than it is outside of combat. But enough regeneration really does make a difference. Because of magicka regeneration enchantments my magicka returns quickly enough in combat that running out is not an issue.

Also, in-game it says my Flames spell now does 27 dps. I have no magic-enhancing mods. The base version of the spell does 8 dps. So, even with both damage perks, Flames should only do 16 dps for me. But it does 27. Same with all my other damaging spells....they all do between 2 and 3 times as much damage as the base spell does (not including dual-casting, which I haven't figure out yet). So, doesn't that mean that destruction does scale somewhat with level? Otherwise, where did my +11 damage come from?

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:56 am

Be nice if spells had as much range as bows though, even if it is just a few 'sniper' type spells.

Dual-cast Chain Lightning - it's as long in distance as a bow. I've been really surprised since I started using it how far it actually will go. Also, it's 60 dps for one hand, 120 dps for dual-cast - if you can find the book that has the spell at 60 dps; a lot of the books I see only have 40 dps.

Also, something funny, if you hit a long distance shot with the "stagger" perk, often the body comes flying through the air, back at you, and will fall down behind you somewhere.

I was going to give this spell up for some master level spells, but I read earlier today in the wiki that you cannot dual-cast master spells, although it takes two hands to cast them.

I can't see casting a single level spell for 40-60 dps max, if I can dual-cast chain lightning for 120.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:19 am

I never run out of magicka because:

1) I only ever put levelup points into magicka. Never did health, never did stamina. Mage = magicka, not health, imo, so I made sure I had more magicka than anyone else at the expense of health. Just like *pure* fighters rarely if ever level up magicka.

2) Only magic-reduction enchantments I have do 25% for all schools. (35% reduction total from gear including archmage robes, and then magic reduction perks on top of that)

3) Magicka regeneration enchantments. Contrary to popular belief, it actually does work in combat, it is just slower than it is outside of combat. But enough regeneration really does make a difference. Because of magicka regeneration enchantments my magicka returns quickly enough in combat that running out is not an issue.

Also, in-game it says my Flames spell now does 27 dps. I have no magic-enhancing mods. The base version of the spell does 8 dps. So, even with both damage perks, Flames should only do 16 dps for me. But it does 27. Same with all my other damaging spells....they all do between 2 and 3 times as much damage as the base spell does (not including dual-casting, which I haven't figure out yet). So, doesn't that mean that destruction does scale somewhat with level? Otherwise, where did my +11 damage come from?

???????????????????????

How the frack does your flames do 27DPS?? I took the fire dmg perk and mine is STILL at 8DPS. (Cloaks and Traps are also unaffected)

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:20 am

Dual-cast Chain Lightning - it's as long in distance as a bow. I've been really surprised since I started using it how far it actually will go. Also, it's 60 dps for one hand, 120 dps for dual-cast - if you can find the book that has the spell at 60 dps; a lot of the books I see only have 40 dps.

Also, something funny, if you hit a long distance shot with the "stagger" perk, often the body comes flying through the air, back at you, and will fall down behind you somewhere.

I was going to give this spell up for some master level spells, but I read earlier today in the wiki that you cannot dual-cast master spells, although it takes two hands to cast them.

I can't see casting a single level spell for 40-60 dps max, if I can dual-cast chain lightning for 120.

You're mixing terms up a bit... just want to clarify some things.

Damage per cast =/= damage per second.

It's 40-60 per CAST (BTW: The difference in dmg here is whether or not you have the destro +dmg perks for the appropriate element)... and actually 88-132 per dual-cast (it's more then 2x damage... it's like 2.15x damage @ 2.3 or 2.5x the cost, and with Impact adds stagger)

HOWEVER you can SINGLE cast 2 1-hand and achieve a HIGHER DPS than chaining dual-cast... the reason why is because of CAST TIME.

The highest DPS you can do is to have lightning in your left and right hand and single cast each, alternating back and forth. You can actually achieve pretty stupidly high dps this way... however you will not regen ANY magicka at ALL while doing this... unlike spacing out dual-casts to stun just before the enemy attempts to hit you, in which you can actually regen the magicka for each cast inbetween your casts.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:59 pm

Dual casting is too costly per damage inflicted unless you take the enchanting perks, which breaks the game.

I prefer to paralyze with a single cast, then I can dish out damage in each hand individually providing me 2x damage for 2x magicka instead of 2.2x damage for 2.8x magicka.

That's one of the most broken things in all magic schools IMO. Make me spend a perk so that I can get WORSE magicka to spell ratio with dual casting? And it makes the whole "our game has dual casting, yay!" sentiment and turns it into "boy, I wish I could shoot fireballs while my claymore is equipped like I could in Oblivion."

Make dual casting 2.2x damage for 2.0x magicka. I'm spending a perk and dedicating both hands to make the spell more powerful. Why am I also being penalized so harshly in magicka usage?

As it stands now with the change in mechanics in this game, I feel like the interface now makes it too much of a pain in the ass to use a 2 handed weapon while being a spell caster. If you want to play a paladin style character that turns undead, casts shield spells and heals, you're so much better off going sword/board. I hate the "equip a spell in a hand" aspect, especially after going back to play oblivion. Keep a 2 handed sword equipped and instantly switchIng between 8 possible spells without ever unequipping your 2 handed sword or ever opening an inventory menu? Yes please! Totally superior.

I agree with you with how these spells work. But as far as your instantly switching, I actually think it adds to the realism of using a 2h weapon. I mean, being able to cast a spell with a 2h weapon in hand seems a little jarring to me. Mods will fix that, I am sure for your preference, but as long as there are hot keys for use, it doesn't bother me.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:20 pm

Dual casting is more costly b/c the point is to use it to stun-lock and they want that to be expensive. Otherwise just use it in both hands but single cast.

So it makes sense - esp. for those who complain that stun lock is OP.

What Bethesda should have done for ALL enchantments/Smithy etc. is only allow 80% - so the most you could reduce casting is capped.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:32 am

^ I agree... My free casting character really isn't fun.

I mean.. .INFINITE destro AND resto casting?

I can hold up a greater ward indefinitely while infinitely spamming lightning bolts!

Actually kinda stupid... and ruins the ONLY stat that really matters to a mage.

If you want the most OP'ed char possible....

Smithing, Enchanting, Heavy Armor, Destro, Resto.

Dump every level up into Health. (nothing else)
P/L Smithing & Enchanting to 100.

You'll be invincible.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:54 am

How the frack does your flames do 27DPS?? I took the fire dmg perk and mine is STILL at 8DPS. (Cloaks and Traps are also unaffected)

He's unintentionally taking advantage of the Aspect of Terror bug, which approximately doubles damage from Flames (it adds 10 base damage to fire spells, so low-level spells get a huge boost, high-level spells get more like 20% boost). There's a bunch of other bugs, many of them listed in this thread. Apparently a lot of records (i.e. game database entries) were copied and pasted and not double-chekced, so a lot of weapons, armor, and magic stats are screwed up--unless you choose to fix them with mods.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:04 pm

the damage is low compared to weapons but honestly if it was as high melee would seem underpowered because you have to get close it would pretty much only be balanced fighting other mages

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:29 am

Destruction feels and looks cool. I don't care that it takes all day to kill stuff with it and that it never levels even though I use it all the time.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:40 am

He's unintentionally taking advantage of the Aspect of Terror bug, which approximately doubles damage from Flames (it adds 10 base damage to fire spells, so low-level spells get a huge boost, high-level spells get more like 20% boost). There's a bunch of other bugs, many of them listed in this thread. Apparently a lot of records (i.e. game database entries) were copied and pasted and not double-chekced, so a lot of weapons, armor, and magic stats are screwed up--unless you choose to fix them with mods.

well that aspect of terror bug is pretty BA then

I think my pure mage might just start using some illusion lol

hell, @17 dps it's... not great... but not too bad of an offhand for spell sword.

I really wish the flamethrower type spells scaled... the style of it is perfect for spellsword... but it quickly becomes useless and the single target and cast destro spells are not nearly as effective or easy to use (relative to level etc) because they'll miss a lot.

Also good way to boost Flame Cloak spell actually..... if it affects all destro fire spells. It also sorely lacks from the +dmg perks it's supposed to have.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:18 pm

I don't use ice on nords. I use wall of flames - which I mentioned (wall spells of various types for crowd control). However I've found that Ice Storm works on just about everything else incredibly well (haven't tried undead since I stick with fire there as well).

J

I did try this earlier in the game and sometimes it worked really well and other times they just went right through it and got to me anyway so I didn't grow to trust it. Maybe I'll give it another go and see if I can get any better use out of it. The biggest issue here is that switching around a lot of spells is pretty much a pain due to the clunky interface. I hate all the delays during battle. I wish they had put in a quick select wheel or some other easy to use spell selector. It's kind of dumb to give us so many spells and then to only have quick access to 2 of them.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:30 am

I think a lot of people just jump on the 'destruction is damaged or UP' bandwagon without really considering things. Comparing it to melee weapons and bows just doesn't gel.

First, it takes a lot of work to get any melee weapon up to the same comparable damage as caused by a dual cast decent level destro spell.

Secondly, I don't know of any bow or melee weapon that can create an area effect as done by any of the wall spells or fireballs, or even the ice storm.

Sure, the individual spells don't get stronger, once you have taken the available perks for them, but your cost to cast them does get cheaper...and the game is structured to make them cost less, which was obviously the design intent. As each of the style of spells (fire, frost, shock) has a spell that increases in effectiveness, that would indicate to me that the intention was for players to take the appropriate perk to make those higher level spells cheaper to use...so if you are still flinging firebolts at something, simply because you choose not to use that incinerate spell, or because you chose not to decrease your casting cost, then it's not the game's problem, it's ultimately your playing style's issue.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:36 am

Level 46 Daedric Warrior I started as a Mage but I hated how easily I could die. I loved how fast i killed in the earlier levels but Now in a Power attack I can kill a Dragon with one hit Dual weilding Daedric Axes. I hurt by 207 For one Axe and The perks boost it. I spent alot of perks on Destruction and i wish I didnt seeing it doesnt help me anymore

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:10 pm

Another mark against the poor design of Destruction as a kill skill: Enemies.

I am at Adept level difficulty. That means 1:1 enemy:player damage.

I go up against a bandit mage. He's got fireballs.

I'm at 180 health when full. He double-barrels me with two fireballs and lops off 120 health.

That means more fireball damage than I can currently deal out myself.

I decide to do more testing and activate Godmode. I do a console check on his magicka level. 268.... an absurdly high level, I'd have to be at a far higher level than I am now to get that much.

He then Dual casts the fireball at me. What's his magicka now? 265. :swear:

That's the most infuriating thing about it. Mooks basically get superior spells that they can cast effectively for free.

WTH, Beth? Why do the mooks get the good Destruction spells while the player gets the awful ones that drain the magicka bar just trying to kill one foe? Why must we commit enchanting/alchemy abuse to get any sort of use out of Destruction while the melee and archery kill skills can stand on their own? Why do they get huge pools of magicka and sip magicka while spellcasting like how a dainty englishwoman sips tea while we empty our magicka bar just trying to kill one enemy of the same level range as us?

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:01 pm

destruction svcks, the damage dealed by spells is horrible compared with all weapons.

True, absolutely. Some people say its overpowered and I was like no ur dumb lol jk but seriously alteration is where its at w/ equilibrium and telekenesis. Also illusion w/ muffle and invisibility

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:08 am

Another mark against the poor design of Destruction as a kill skill: Enemies.

I am at Adept level difficulty. That means 1:1 enemy:player damage.

I go up against a bandit mage. He's got fireballs.

I'm at 180 health when full. He double-barrels me with two fireballs and lops off 120 health.

That means more fireball damage than I can currently deal out myself.

I decide to do more testing and activate Godmode. I do a console check on his magicka level. 268.... an absurdly high level, I'd have to be at a far higher level than I am now to get that much.

He then Dual casts the fireball at me. What's his magicka now? 265. :swear:

That's the most infuriating thing about it. Mooks basically get superior spells that they can cast effectively for free.

WTH, Beth? Why do the mooks get the good Destruction spells while the player gets the awful ones that drain the magicka bar just trying to kill one foe? Why must we commit enchanting/alchemy abuse to get any sort of use out of Destruction while the melee and archery kill skills can stand on their own? Why do they get huge pools of magicka and sip magicka while spellcasting like how a dainty englishwoman sips tea while we empty our magicka bar just trying to kill one enemy of the same level range as us?

Because gamesas never follow's it's own rules. Not to mention the ycan't set up balanced ones i nthe first place. The ysetup broken rules for the PC that make them stupidly powerful so they then have to make the AI cheat to be competitive.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:45 pm

I noticed that enemy mages had much lower casting costs when I saw them holding up Wards for waaaaay to long (especially higher level wards because they didn't break with a lightning bolt slamming into it... so they're at LEAST using steadfast)

still, you can gear yourself up with 80-90% reduc in a couple choice schools (may I recommend Destro and Resto.... the 2 most combat spam heavy schools) You can even make them free... but that kinda makes it boring IMO and I'd rather get 15% off all schools with +Magicka and regen on the archmage robes.

When you do that... you can cast a LOT more combat magic. Alteration and Conjuration only get 15% off, but they have longer durations and are more 1 cast per fight type spells (and can be cast prior to combat). Additionally, I usually have summon staves (Tip: You can get a Storm Atronach staff from the underforge... there's also a Frost staff for free when you complete mage line in your final quest reward Quarters at the college) in case I need to resummon mid fight and want to avoid magicka usage to allow for regen.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:35 pm

He's unintentionally taking advantage of the Aspect of Terror bug, which approximately doubles damage from Flames (it adds 10 base damage to fire spells, so low-level spells get a huge boost, high-level spells get more like 20% boost). There's a bunch of other bugs, many of them listed in this thread. Apparently a lot of records (i.e. game database entries) were copied and pasted and not double-chekced, so a lot of weapons, armor, and magic stats are screwed up--unless you choose to fix them with mods.

Hopefully that will get fixed.

I like dealing with the game the way it was written to be, weak or strong, I will take a mage and make it work within the official rule system.

As things are, and I hope I am not taking advantage of bugs I do not know about, I believe I do just fine.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:00 pm

destruction svcks, the damage dealed by spells is horrible compared with all weapons.

Part of that is because there's no hard caps for weapon damage like there is for magic (or armor rating/resistance).

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:28 am

If you want to have fun in this game you have to either be an archer or a melee character

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:00 am

If you want to have fun in this game you have to either be an archer or a melee character

pure opinion.

I ? my pure mage