Since they did cut out Speech... : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:15 pm

I'm a touch disapointed by the removal of hand to hand, to be honest. What if I wanted to make a Monk class? But I'm not too worried about it...

Does the Light Armor skill have perks that supplant Athletics/Acrobatics, by the way? I should probably look myself, but I'm wondering if I'll be able to make my Dunmer Nightblade run really fast and jump across rooftops...

Closest you get is increase in Stamina regeneration perk. Though I want to say that I heard

Spoiler

that some armor or items have speed enhancements. Do not quote me on this I'm just going off what I thought I read on a spoiler.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:19 pm

Speech useless? What? Its like in fallout3s bartering and speech combined... and they were the one most usefull skills in that game...

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:17 pm

Speech/Mercantile has uses because this is a ROLEPLAYING GAME. And you say its useless? Well without the skill you can't bribe guards to ignore crimes. Bribery is a perk We might also expect to find skill checks in the game juging by perks like Persuade and Intimidate.

Mysticism was an ill defined school of magic, the lore book on Mysticism says as much. It was the dumping ground of effects lumped together. Acrobatics and Athletics were always just annoying they went up automatically

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:52 pm

Speech useless? What? Its like in fallout3s bartering and speech combined... and they were the one most usefull skills in that game...

Oddly I found bartering useful because it was a bonus I didn't really have to do anything for. Where as speech was more of a convenience tool since all it really ended up coming down to is wanting to raise it to cut down on the number of restarts you did after a speech check. My hope is that move more towards a model of Speech levels adding new dialogue options.

» Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:11 am

I was rolling my sleeves up when I read the title, then I read the OP and I was like, "that's better." Anyways, I feel the consolidation of speech/mercantile was a good idea, because you don't need to get all the perks and the speech perks all tend to go up one alley while the mercantile/barter related skills go up another alley. This is good consolidation. Other than that, no excuse to cut out Mysticism, Acrobatics, or Athletics. They should have consolidated Acrobatics/Athletics into the same tree but instead, they completely remove them. I just can't agree with Beth's decision on that one.

I'm oposite of you my friend. Acrobatics and Athletics were completely pointless. How did they define a character at ALL? everybody runs, everybody jumps. Why running or jumping was considered a skill in the first place is beyond me aside from being completely useless in almost every circumstance.

Even combining jumping and running, why not just have a breathing skill as well?

They would also piss me off since I dont want to waste any points or level ups just because I decided to jump that time or run over there, causing me to level and raise a skill I really don't care about.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:38 pm

Anyone know how the minigame will work in Skyrim?

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:43 pm

Oddly I found bartering useful because it was a bonus I didn't really have to do anything for. Where as speech was more of a convenience tool since all it really ended up coming down to is wanting to raise it to cut down on the number of restarts you did after a speech check. My hope is that move more towards a model of Speech levels adding new dialogue options.

Yeah it was even better in New Vegas where it gave you more options, sadly beth didnt make it.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:29 pm

Anyone know how the minigame will work in Skyrim?

There isn't one. You get speech checks to perform in conversation. I guess it uses the same DnD style of check like Fallout 3 did, rather than the flat system that New Vegas used. I really preferred New Vegas's system.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:55 pm

Yeah it was even better in New Vegas where it gave you more options, sadly beth didnt make it.

My roommate whose going with me to the Skyrim release for our copies is a huge Fallout:NV fan. He wanted me to start a game since I've just played FO3. But with Skyrim up and three of us getting copies...yeah don't think it's going to happen. I think with the larger number of ways to influence people in Skyrim it'll end up a bit more useful than Oblivion at least.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:16 am

I'm oposite of you my friend. Acrobatics and Athletics were completely pointless. How did they define a character at ALL? everybody runs, everybody jumps. Why running or jumping was considered a skill in the first place is beyond me aside from being completely useless in almost every circumstance.

Even combining jumping and running, why not just have a breathing skill as well?

They would also piss me off since I dont want to waste any points or level ups just because I decided to jump that time or run over there, causing me to level and raise a skill I really don't care about.

Because it's good for defining character's that are good at, well you know, [censored] running and jumping? With the new perk system in place, a world of options would have been available to those that wanted to perk into these options, but just because it leveled up for everyone that automatically warrants and justifies it's removal? Hmm ok. You have to consider, people are going to be running around and jumping all over the place at some point in their play-through, if they choose to perk into it then they'll be better at running and jumping than those that choose to ignore the perks.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:34 pm

Because it's good for defining character's that are good at, well you know, [censored] running and jumping? With the new perk system in place, a world of options would have been available to those that wanted to perk into these options, but just because it leveled up for everyone that automatically warrants and justifies it's removal? Hmm ok. You have to consider, people are going to be running around and jumping all over the place at some point in their play-through, if they choose to perk into it then they'll be better at running and jumping than those that choose to ignore the perks.

I have to agree with nightshade. It was painful in the old system since it broke immersion and both were terrible skills for Major Skill set ups because of the leveling/level scaling issue. I think they axed them because their so basic to the game world they don't really add enough to be skills and their own rights. And they are(especially Speed) not very easy to balance. Particularly trying to balance it being useful but not overpowered.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:42 am

it is supposedly much harder to get money in skyrim

I hope that this is The Truth on High

I hope that most people wont make 100k gold without speech perks or a lot of effort

I hope that those few that give up more damage done or less damage taken actually gains a benefit not just another fancy storage facility

I really hope your right!

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:43 pm

Because it's good for defining character's that are good at, well you know, [censored] running and jumping? With the new perk system in place, a world of options would have been available to those that wanted to perk into these options, but just because it leveled up for everyone that automatically warrants and justifies it's removal? Hmm ok. You have to consider, people are going to be running around and jumping all over the place at some point in their play-through, if they choose to perk into it then they'll be better at running and jumping than those that choose to ignore the perks.

I have to agree with nightshade. It was painful in the old system since it broke immersion and both were terrible skills for Major Skill set ups because of the leveling/level scaling issue. I think they axed them because their so basic to the game world they don't really add enough to be skills and their own rights. And they are(especially Speed) not very easy to balance. Particularly trying to balance it being useful but not overpowered.

Well you can be better at running already. If you invest in stamina. The problem is is that in TES games you are what you do. Everybody runs so you don't have a choice in that. You are going to waste skill ups in athletics.Yes, because it levels for everyone it does constitute for its removal. Theres no point in making a whole skill out of something every character does in the game. You can take perks already to be faster or jump higher but by making it a skill itself it would skew leveling. Since you level based on what you do you would have no choice but to level up running and jumping (since everyone does this) and then you could end up like in oblivion where you are a screwed up character just because you ran around or jumped a little too much. Because all of the skills must be activated by choice now and none are passive (like running and jumping) Your characters leveling is only defined by the skills you actually mean to use.

Similar to what MrMephistopheles said they are just too basic and really conflicted with the leveling system. With this kind of system where you level after you skill up in your skills when you have passive skills like running it could really damage your character.