http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1293973-wip-unique-taverns/ is on hold until this bug is fixed, although I am doing retexes ready for it. I am also not even building myself a house and am not starting on any new towns, although Skyrim is crying out for a Pell's Gate imho.

The Nav Mesh bug would destroy all of my mods as they are all reliant heavily on having loads of NPCs...actually moving.

So yes it is all on hold until the fix is released, which I am very relieved that they are working on.

My http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1256368-wip-high-rock/ Project is affected, too.

We are still working, but because of the bugs we can not begin with any work on exteriors.

I do not geting into debates of whether the issues should be fixed or not. I'm debating the significance of anouncements that a mod is on hold because of issues that cannot yet affect a mod of the claimed size, and I'm debating the sense of discussing two completely different issues here just because they affect you right now.

The navmeshes are one of many issues that affect most of us and actually are minor ones because they can be worked around right now. If your mod is on hold, then this may have been the final straw but certainly not the main reason for stopping to work on that project. Of course the bug will be fixed, gamesas wants us to use the Steam Workshop so we need to be able to release ESPs with navmeshes, if your mod is done but can't be released because of this, then it's delayed because of this issue, not "on hold".

Worldspaces being limited to an area not much larger than 130% of Skyrim's accessible size are a completely different thing. If it indeed is just a minor bug then it may be fixed, but chances are good that it's an accepted limitation or even an optimization measure. The wise choice is to think about alternatives right now, and those are: cancelling the project, setting it on hold until there is an official statement, and starting to work right now and adjusting later. It's up to you whether you decide to adjust, abandon, protest or pout, but if you proceed to announce your decision, be prepared that others comment on it one way or the other.

But what about all the other issues? LOD? Heightmaps? Those are more serious than the Navmeshes and affect more people than the Worldspaces yet they don't seem to affect you personally. I'm fine with the bugs being fixed, but when your giant worldspaces turn out to be an extra feature, I'd rather want bugs fixed that affect more of us, or maybe a bit of documentation or even tools for the Skyrim NIfs so that one day it will even be possible to fill even one 128x128 worldspace with content that doesn't seem to be copypasted right out of Skyrim (the region).


We are the spoiled brats among the game-modders, most communities need to reverse-engineer their games and write their own tools. Where modding other games is all about improvisation and compromises, we think we have a right to be provided with all the tools we need to realize the mod we have in mind, exactly as we imagine it. And how do we justify that claim? Either by naivete ("I've paid my hard-earned 60 bucks for that game!") or by arrogance ("Thanks to my mod the game will sell like hot cakes for decades to come"). Truth is, we're just one of gamesas's pet-projects, the vast majority of gamers doesn't know or care about modding. We may get what we want as long as the effort to keep us happy stays within reasonable limits, if we proceed to run down the game because we didn't get all the toys we wanted, we might get no toys at all next time.

As for your thread: the more the topic is discussed, the more attention it wil get. It's very unlikely that there will be 200 posts with large mod projects that are on hold, but with a bit of discussion, the thread may stay on top until the post limit hits. Discussions usually require different opinions.

Then we should agree to disagree and move on. No need to over egg this discussion now with this mate. Lets move back to the point of the thread. Perhaps you could make one of your own and we can take your discussion elsewhere. We can discuss all of your points and arguments all day if you want. You made your point, youre not bothered by this bug. Lets chat elsewhere about it.

Moving back to the point of the thread:

Er, to be clear, this only affects new areas right? It won't affect areas that already exist in the game where you just plopped actors or activators down?

If you modify the navmesh in that area, then yes, it does affect you.

Okay, thanks, SWG!

The Worldspace-Bug only affects areas outside of -64 and 64 in the x-axis. Skyrim is within this size, so no, if you don't add new landspace in east or west you will probably not affected by this error as a modder. Also if you add landspace north or south of skyrim (y-axis), you also don't have the problems. But there are already projects that want to add morrowind in the east, and at least until there is a bugfix from beth or some modder, this will be impossible

Edit: Oh sorry, i didn't know that you asked about the navmesh-issue. But at least there is a bugfix for it on the way.

I had planned on doing a "Falmer of Skryim" mod that would link huge numbers of the dwarven ruins and worldspace caverns. My initial tests were to copy some interior worldspaces, modify the copies and then add them in so most of Skyrim had a huge subterranian network branching out of Blackreach. Between a problem with landscape copying and the Navmesh bug, I have decided to drop it completely because I don't want to spend 2000hrs on work arounds and complete custom interior worldspaces.

I would keep it on the backburner, in case of a fix. I know the feeling though.

Indeed... Keep your ambitious projects simmering and stir them every once in a while. If Bethesda doesn't fix something, you can bet that someone will find either a work-around, or a way to at least fool the player into believing the game is doing what you hope to accomplish.

Once you know all the limits and barriers, it's amazing what can be done within them to awesome effect. I remember some clever modders in the classic DOOM community who found ways to simulate sloped surfaces and bridges you can walk over or under. This was before Id Software released the source code. Everything was done strictly within the hardcoded limits of the engine.

Believe me, those of us talking about limits and brick walls here have NOTHING on what it used to be like.

Even with the current issues with skyrim's engine and/or the creation kit, there is so much that can still be done.

New quests can be added to the vanilla game. Radiant Story quests could use expanding upon. Adding little things here and there that add depth to the game are always fun. And as the bigger issues get fixed our bigger projects can move forward, potentially being even better because of what we would have been practicing in the meantime.

Skyrim's going to be around for a while. Let's enjoy it and what we CAN do with it.

So when I give a NPC ai package based on "FollowPlayer" AI Package or "Follow" AI package templates to make simple followers without having to worry about companion counts or dialogue script (eg. Simple soldier npcs following me around for a quest of mine), AIs will never follow me outside is a bug or glitch prevalent atm?