Personally my mod is on hold now waiting for a fix for both of these issues:

In a nutshell they are:

Navmesh doesnt work on esp files. Leave a cell, go more than two cells away and return, all NPC's etc will stand around, companions wont follow you and so on.

Worldspace: any placement of an NPC, creature etc beyond -64 and +64 cells east or west becomes immediately broken, NPC's and creatures etc drop through the ground and bounce up and down like zebedee.

I just wanted to gauge how many peoples projects are affected by these bugs. I suspect many modders wont be aware of them so anyone working on exterior world projects over a certain size and anyone doing any form of NPC placement in any plugin, please make yourselves aware of these before committing too much dedication and time to your projects.

Please also keep pushing for Bethesda to fix both, even if your project isnt inconvenienced or spoiled directly.

Anyway, on to the main point of the thread: which projects are currently on hold or proceeding with caution.

I will start with mine, Mesogea. I cant start to port it across from Oblivion owing to the issues above.

**Note** this thread is intended to get an idea which projects are affected, not to discuss the merits of the thread, the projects, likelihood of it being fixed etc.

So far my project (a new land mass) is still going ahead. I'm making the island small enough (smaller than 64x64) and haven't delved into the navmeshing yet but I'm planning on making my mod an ESM when I can.. hopefully that will fix it.

I'm sure people know by now, but Open Cities Skyrim has been suspended until the bug is fixed, or some kind of temporary workaround comes along.

I'm not even going to spend time on making villages until this gets dealt with.

My Frontier mod, which is planned to add a new worldspace will be on hold until these things are fixed. I am currently creating a smaller village mod which I will (probably) release as a beta 0.1 version to a limited audience, and wait with the full release until these very pressing things are fixed by Bethesda.

Fix these things, Bethesda! And, by the way, while you're at it, please fix the face texture bug too. Please let us all start to create greatness for you and use our talent to forward your game.

My own personal island. Looks like I'll have to hold off NPCs.

My Helgen Rebuilt mod is not totally on hold as I’m going to go ahead and start building some dungeons, do some writing, get dialog all typed up and so forth in preparation. But it’s really hard to put my heart into it not knowing if this will be fixed. Navmesh editing is crucial to rebuilding Helgen as it will add several structures both inside and outside of the fort. By myself it's going to probably take 3 months (maybe longer) to build my mod. If I can put together a small team it can be done in less time. But I'd hate to commit that much work into it if it eventually is determined that navmeshing will not be fixed.

I'm already stuck for the custom nif collision problems, but also the navmesh will block the work.

I'm going to go ahead and release my house mod when I'm finished polishing it. The bug will affect the spouse's animations indoors (I haven't had any problems outdoors yet, though I hear it's possible), but won't really effect the storage and display features of the house. I will, however, attach a warning to my description so people won't blame me for that particular bug - for a small house, it's not game-breaking and only minimally immersion-breaking. For my longer-term project (Festivals of Skyrim), I will have to think about how to implement it since actors moving around city spaces is pretty much the whole point of the mod (when I'm done with it, I will certainly have to look into an Open Cities version). I will certainly be more wary of doing ANYTHING with edited navmeshes until it gets fixed. Hopefully, it will all be taken care of in the game engine and won't require redoing all the navmesh work in current mods.

Generally, this is probably fine. My alt-start mod has a farmhouse option, and that's probably about as far as one should go before running headlong into the navmesh bug.

With the way I'm implementing Open Cities this time around, you may not need to make too many big considerations if you can exploit existing in-game AI markers. Those all get shifted to the Tamriel side. Bonus effect of persistence no longer existing in the way we all knew from before. All depends on what your festivals need to add.

It will make testing my mod a biatch, but I'll power through by making it an ESM constantly to test... :/

http://www.sandsofdestiny.net for Skyrim is put on hold until the current CK issues are fixed. Although I have the landmass and LODs working, it's not of much use if Navmeshing and NPC behaviour is broken. While I do have faith that we might see an update to the third party 3D Studio Max plugins, this project is pretty much dead in the water for a Skyrim port. Although I am constantly making new models, they're only really of use for the current Oblivion version of the mod. Seeing that some of the currently adressed bugs have been present since the past couple of games, it makes me slightly pessimistic to believe that Bethesda will fix them.

If they really care about the community as they claimed in their PR and advertising campaigns, it would be a nice move to make an effort to fix these problems, since they not only affect large worldspace mods, but also smaller projects.

~DE

I still need to learn papyrus before I can properly start my planned quest mod, but even tehn I'm still going to wait for the navmesh bug to get fixed before starting on anything big.

If I can't eventually do anything big (i.e. if these bugs aren't fixed), then I don't see any point in spending time with the CK in doing anything but minor tweaks for my own enjoyment. It'd be nice if they fixed the music dialogues too... '

I was wanting to get into modding in Skyrim, and I've already spent most everyday since the CK came out learning how to use it and working on creating a dungeon.... Majorly bummed out that it may be all for naught.

Beyond Skyrim's current objective is a single all-Tamriel worldspace to meet players' demands to be able to move freely without "choke points" for worldspace transitions.

I'm still able to work on the heightmap - it's a pretty big job - but I can't implement anything for teams to start modding on until we have a confirmed resolution to the Large Worldspace Bug. Which is a pity, because I'm practically done with High Rock, the team is raring to go, and it's right next door to Skyrim so it should be a quick win.

Sounds like a fix to Navmesh has been promised, but I've yet to hear that Bethesda even know about the Large Worldspace Bug. Pretty much any modding in the original game worldspace more than a few cells outside the Skyrim borders will be hit by this one - so if you're affected tweet @BGS_Devs and mention #SkyrimWorldspaceBug

Navmesh (and maybe worldspace bug, not 100% sure where its gonna go) would affect "LitS2". I'll keep working on the house though, just wont navmesh yet. A questline to get the house will be on hold however.

EmptyK http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1345681-navmesh-bug/page__view__findpost__p__20341090 that the issue is being addressed and a fix is in the works.

For the navmesh bug, yes. We still have no indication that the devs are even aware of the Large Worldspace bug

Navmeshes aren't really a problem for me, a fix is being worked on, so you can do other things meanwhile. If your mod really is already done and just waits for working Navmeshes, you should start to polish it or release it as an ESM for the time being. If it hinders your testing phase you can always use a batch and debug to set the ESM flag.

As for Worldspaces, I have a strange feeling of Deja Vu when I read this, weren't there many "great projects" for Oblivion that never even were started because the OBCS had problems with huge Worldspaces as well? Those modders that actually managed to release their new worlds seem to have found workarounds.

Like back then there are many people that jump on the bandwagon just for the sake of gamesas bashing, let's make a reality check:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/859/skyrimworldspace.jpg/

The brown square is the area with cell coordinates from -64/-64 to 64/64

So Skyrim doesn't support new worlds that are much larger than the Vanilla game. You can be 30% larger in N/S direction, but E/W is at the limits in the vanilla game. Of course there are also 10-20% inaccessible filler areas in each direction, if you make an island and don't have to pretend there's a world beyond the accessible area, you can add that space to the size of the vanilla game.

Frankly, If you planning a new world that huge, maybe you should use an engine that is better suited for that task, or use several worldspaces. If you're planning a world even huger, don't expect to finish it while people still remember that there once was a game called Skyrim.

"Frankly, If you planning a new world that huge, maybe you should use an engine that is better suited for that task, or use several worldspaces."


JOG, please, please research the issue as you are incorrect. I know youre trying to be helpful but there is no workaround that is feasible or realistic for this issue.

If you are fine with the heightmap as is, then I am honestly glad for you but it is not workable for many of us and our projects are dead in the water. As time goes on other projects will be hit by this as soon as they reach cell 64 on the x axis. The debate over whether we have a workaround etc is long finished. This thread is to show WHO IS affected, not to debate the validity of our argument.

Oblivion had two releases of the Construction Set. The first had LOD issues beyond 128 cells in any direction.LOD didnt show up basically. I know because I tried and was in contact with dozens of people who hit the same issue round about the same time. A game update fixed it. There was never a collision issue with Oblivions CS, the ONLY heightmap issue was LOD not rendering, so large worldspaces went on hold and some such as Wheel of time simply stopped never to start up again. However there was never a third party workaround for Oblivion collision issues because there never were any issues to fix or workaround. Quite bluntly youre mistaken over the issues. Skyrims CK has introduced a NEW collision heightmap issue that never existed in the Oblivion CS. There were some issues with load order of esm's that caused rips in the heightmap but these were NOT the same as the CK/Skyrim issue.

I built a large worldspace in Oblivion and there was NEVER any issue with the x,y axis collision in the game or CS. This issue is ENTIRELY Skyrim related.

Those with issues about the navmesh have really worked hard on getting the issue resolved by persistence, they were not Bethesda bashing? Persistence worked. http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1345681-navmesh-bug/page__st__150__p__20341090#entry20341090
That issue is being address. Allow those of us affected by the heightmap collision bug to have our attempt at remedy without being told that we should just shut up and put up. (I know youre not saying that quite so bluntly but it reads like it)

Back on thread: Is your project affected by the heightmap/navmesh bug? Please comment.

This is not Bethesda bashing. This is asking them to fix some very serious problems that prevent the game from being used for a purpose for which it was advertised and which is the only reason some of us bought it.

There are good reasons for not using multiple worldspaces, the two main ones being that you have to completely modify your terrain to create choke-points for worldspace transitions; and you have to duplicate entire worldspaces worth of LOD. Oh, which is another bug.

There were a number of large projects for Oblivion - they had problems and were worked around - fine. This bug is a fault in the game engine. It is asymmetric with respect to the x- and y-axes, so its unlikely to be fundamental. It's a schoolboy programming error somewhere. I would hope someone has a very red face when they realise this was in their piece of the code.

Just because you posted up a copy of the terrain texture detailing for the portion of the game universe that was used for the original game in no way means the engine is incapable of handling a far larger expanse: all you've done is displayed the region for which the engine has been tested. I am sure Bethesda intended that worldspace expansions should be possible. It just didn't show up in testing that for the x-axis there is a coding error in collision detection.

Well, if you don't want to hear different opinions, then discuss it in privacy.

According to the thread's title the question is which mods are on hold until the issues are fixed. The navmesh issue will be fixed, and hopefully LOD generation too, so that's no reason to put your mod on hold, unless there's really nothing else left to do on your mod.

It's a good idea to put your mod on hold if it requires a huge worldspace or needs to be in the same worldspace as the vanilla game yet miles away; but I fear it will be on hold infinitely unless you are willing to adjust to the reality of engine limitations (and/or bugs that affect neither the developers nor 90% of the modders)

The reality of the engine's limitations is probably that there is a very small bug with a very large impact for many mods with a great potential to keep the game fresh and interesting for years to come, long after the limited space in the near vicinity of Skyrim has been exhausted

"According to the thread's title the question is which mods are on hold until the issues are fixed"

I am glad to see your projects are not affected by this JOG. However many of us ARE affected and even ten percent of modders deserve to have their concerns raised and addressed. (we dont know how many modders and projects, so try not to quote guessed at numbers)

Is your project on hold? Is it affected? Please try not to get into debates of whether you should have the issue fixed or not, the idea of the thread is to provide a very clear idea for Bethesda of the quantity of and type of projects affected so that THEY can decide the merits of a fix or not. If you want to discuss the merits of it, please start another thread to keep this one clear and to the point.

I was going to make a really cool forge for some weapons but...I can't now. I'll have to wait for a fix.